[Game] MineClone 2 [0.52.1]

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by GamingAssociation39 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 15:25

I've "added" code for stripped logs (WIP) to the bugs section for MCL2. It still needs textures for it though...
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by Wuzzy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 23:20

I've "added" code for stripped logs (WIP) to the bugs section for MCL2. It still needs textures for it though...

Heh. If you want any of the new MC 1.13 blocks to appear in MCL2, I first need the textures, and I'm not an artist.
If someone is willing to draw me the textures, or when the original Pixel Perfection texture pack for Minecraft gets updated, chances increase greatly I will add the blocks in question, if the are not too difficult to implement.

Anyway, this patch is appreciated, of course.

One thing that really annoys me, is when you put two door side by side, both doors open to the left when one should open left and the other to the right. Most other issues don't effect me much, just the doors.

Known bug. :-(

- Creepers blow up based on proximity even thru walls and even if they don't see you

Yes.

- Creepers will blow instantly instead of ticking down TSSS
- Items thrown into a fire do not get destroyed

Need to check.
I know that mobs suck. :D

- There's no way to brew potions as the brewing stand is not implemented yet but it appears you have fermented eye which is created only using brewing mechanic (so is probably not available in survival)

You can a fermented eye for fun and to put it in your item frame as decoration. It has no real use yet.

- Undead mobs do not burn during daylight

Most mob stuff is incomplete.

- Zombies ignore Villagers (not sure if you find villagers naturally in the game)

Villagers are incomplete and therefore don't spawn yet.

Anyone know how to edit the signs code for multicolored signs?

Does MC support sign colors?

- Still get arrow damage, if though i'm inside a building (completely surrounded by blocks)

The description is too vague to be useful.

- On respawn, I got spawn on top of my bed, inside another block (ceiling) which caused damage till death. Repeated until I broke the block.

That sucks. I need to think of something to prevent that. Not sure how.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by dawgdoc » Mon Jan 21, 2019 02:00

Wuzzy wrote:
- Still get arrow damage, if though i'm inside a building (completely surrounded by blocks)

The description is too vague to be useful.

I've experienced the same. Skeletons shooting me with arrows through the solid walls of a building or around corners in a cave.
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by leblu » Mon Jan 21, 2019 13:42

dawgdoc wrote:
Wuzzy wrote:
- Still get arrow damage, if though i'm inside a building (completely surrounded by blocks)

The description is too vague to be useful.

I've experienced the same. Skeletons shooting me with arrows through the solid walls of a building or around corners in a cave.


Yep, thats what I meant.
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by CodingEagle02 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 04:54

I really like this subgame.

I've found a few issues (I'm not sure how many of them have been pointed out), which I hope will get fixed.

Firstly, seemingly mobs such as sheep, when attacked. Just kinda. Slide a few meters.

Mobs, I think, aren't shown on fire. However, from observation, they do take fire damage.

When playing on my phone, I discovered a bug that let a spider go through a closed door. I had a wooden house, with a wall 7 or maybe 9 (I think acacia) wooden planks long. It was 4 planks high, with the fourth layer being the ceiling. The middle of the wall had an ordinary wooden door of the same type. I waited in the middle of the house, as a spider and a zombie tried to get in through the door, when suddenly, the spider appeared inside the house. I then experimented on my computer (unsure whether it was a phone bug), and sure enough, the bug was perfectly reproduceable. I also experimented with the small spiders, but I can't remember the results.

And finally. I'm not sure whether it can be fixed, but in creative mode, unlike in vanilla Minetest, the inventory search bar doesn't have a button. When I press enter, nothing happens. If that could be fixed, that'd be super.

I really hope this subgame is very successful, and I appreciate the hard work that must've been put into it.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by dawgdoc » Sun Jan 27, 2019 05:00

Give Wuzzy time, he seems aware that mobs need a bit of work. It's probably a matter of what to correct first.
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by Termos » Sun Jan 27, 2019 17:14

CodingEagle02 wrote:Firstly, seemingly mobs such as sheep, when attacked. Just kinda. Slide a few meters.

In /mods/ENTITIES/mcl_mobs/api.lua
search for "-- knock back effect (only on full punch)"

there's this line a few below:
local kb = r * 5

reduce it an order of magnitude like:
local kb = r * 0.5

fixed.
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by Wuzzy » Mon Jan 28, 2019 01:23

CodingEagle02 wrote:Firstly, seemingly mobs such as sheep, when attacked. Just kinda. Slide a few meters.

Yeah, knockback strength is a little bit absurd. Knockback is intentional, but I could make it weaker.

Mobs, I think, aren't shown on fire. However, from observation, they do take fire damage.

Effects, such as “being on fire”, are a major feature that still needs to be implemented. The trick is to make it work both for mobs and players.

When playing on my phone, I discovered a bug that let a spider go through a closed door. I had a wooden house, with a wall 7 or maybe 9 (I think acacia) wooden planks long. It was 4 planks high, with the fourth layer being the ceiling. The middle of the wall had an ordinary wooden door of the same type. I waited in the middle of the house, as a spider and a zombie tried to get in through the door, when suddenly, the spider appeared inside the house. I then experimented on my computer (unsure whether it was a phone bug), and sure enough, the bug was perfectly reproduceable. I also experimented with the small spiders, but I can't remember the results.

In MCL2, spiders are magical beings that can move through walls via telekinesis.

Actually … Just kidding! This is just a bug. xD

And finally. I'm not sure whether it can be fixed, but in creative mode, unlike in vanilla Minetest, the inventory search bar doesn't have a button. When I press enter, nothing happens. If that could be fixed, that'd be super.

The enter key works fine on my side. :-(
I have to ask the usual questions: OS? MCL2 version? MT version?
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by Wuzzy » Wed Jan 30, 2019 19:07

XD

That would mean I have to release 1.0.0, then make 33 feature releases and 7 bugfix releases BEFORE the post counter reaches 1337 hits. I wonder where I should post the changelogs then … Yeah, sounds totally doable.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by Linuxdirk » Wed Jan 30, 2019 22:35

Wuzzy wrote:That would mean I have to release 1.0.0, then make 33 feature releases and 7 bugfix releases BEFORE the post counter reaches 1337 hits.

Just randomly change the version number to a bogus value and justify it with using SemVer … if others can do this why not you *scnr* :)
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by Termos » Thu Jan 31, 2019 18:54

Some feedback.
I focus on first impressions, because that's probably the most important thing at this stage, which makes the difference between having players/testers and not.

Mobs.
The first problem I noticed was excessive punch knockback sending mobs skating away at such a high speed that I couldn't chase them down. Then I noticed mobs wouldn't stop spawning, soon I found myself overrun by hostiles and under constant bombardment by creepers, trying to run away didn't go well because of large numbers of peaceful mobs blocking the way. Then I noticed large herds of animals forming on water (a result of a bug causing mobs being trapped in water), and other examples of erratic behaviour.
The game become unplayable. I would have stopped playing at that point, If I did not discover most problems can be easily fixed.
Here's a modified mcl_mobs/api.lua, should anyone be interested.
api.zip
(21.85 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

It's a maximum effect with least effort/tampering type of thing. Unfortunately for best effect individual mob files must be edited too because of way too high spawn limits which are set there - average of 5 of every species per tiny active block area is way too many, values closer to one work much better.
My conclusion, making mobs work well may be tricky stuff, but making them okay enough for now is not.


The following is somewhat subjective but well..

Textures.
This is not something you notice right away, it gets to you after some time, I think it's about the most prevalent textures: bluish grass and grass decor, greyish dirt, rusty sand and murky water. The color palette is all cold making it feel depressive after some time.
Quick win: for now revert to default if possible, MTG textures are ok enough, and way better than MCL2 textures.
In my game, I just replaced the few most offending textures with my own. Just solid color with some HSV noise on top works well enough.

Flowers.
It's not about particular textures, it's about density and variety, flower meadows look totally crazy.
I can think of one type of place where you would find flowers in such numbers and variety - it adds a funeral feel to already depressive landscape.
Quick win: Increase spread a lot and then some, add more grass in between.


Other than that, the block play seems decent enough, pretty close to MC, would be a waste for new players to be turned away by initial impressions.
 

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WE HAVE A WINNER!

by Wuzzy » Thu Jan 31, 2019 20:16

Congratulations on the 1337th post! You win 1 Internet!

Yes, mob spawn is really bad, I agree and it's the number 1 worst problem in MCL2 right now. Yes, the rule 5-mobs-per-species is absurd because there are so many species. It worked well for original Mobs Redo, which did not come with so many mobs. I haven't looked at your code yet, will do so later (thanks!).
Mob spawning is not following MC logic at all anyway, so I probably have to redo that from scratch anyway.
Maybe I could look into at least a quick-n-dirty fix for next version.

Hmm, about textures. Well, it's a thing I heard from many people now. I'd normally say it's a matter of taste but after hearing many voices, it might be time to switch textures once again ... :-( It seems Pixel Perfection is controversial. Some like it, some don't. The problem seems to be that it is sometimes to “artistic”.
The thing is, somebody has to draw the textures. Originally, I wanted to have textures that kinda look like MC without being a blatant copy. TBH, I am also kind of attached to PP right now, but if many people want something else, I should consider a switch, true. My attachment to PP is not THAT big anymore. :D
A style that is similar to Minetest Game would also work, I guess. I wouldn't want to copy Minetest Game textures, first, they are way too incomplete for MCL2, and second, I want MCL2 to look different than MTG. :P
So, having a more “neutral” look by default would be an improvement. Or do you think a simple re-colorization of some textures would do the trick?
I could offer PP as official texture pack add-on anyway. :-)

Alternatively, if someone finds me a nice Minecraft texture pack that is 16×16px AND free/libre, I might take it. I have now a texture conversion utility script (in “tools/” directory) to make things a bit easier.

Also, anyone can create a texture pack right now, you don't have to touch source files. It just works like in any other game. I would be glad to see some MCL2 texture packs popping up in the forums, esp. if they're free/libre. Texture packs are also useful to show off a work-in-progress.

The “flower meadows” are actually called “flower forests” and the large amount of flowers is intended. It's directly taken from MC. I think it's also useful to collect a lot of dyes. But maybe could tweak a little to make it look more “natural”. Your spread suggestion sounds reasonable. Tweaking just is a lot of fiddly work.
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by texmex » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:00

As an avid Pixel Perfection fan I have to point out that its textures are not intended to look that cold. Whether MCL2’s cold textures is due to misused color profiles or possibly an earlier version of PP I don’t know, but it’s easily mitigated by updating the textures from a fresh download of PP.
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by Termos » Fri Feb 01, 2019 14:32

Wuzzy wrote:Mob spawning is not following MC logic at all anyway, so I probably have to redo that from scratch anyway. Maybe I could look into at least a quick-n-dirty fix for next version.

My opinion, I don't think ABM is a good place to do spawns, that's because one: ABMs work according to time-probability and that means you'll always encounter more mobs if you stay put than if you're travelling, which is the opposite of what should be happening, and two: they work at a position away from player, so calls to get_objects_inside radius at that position usually include some inactive area.
I'd look for some way to do spawns from player's position perspective.
Wuzzy wrote:Pixel Perfection is controversial. Some like it, some don't. The problem seems to be that it is sometimes to “artistic”.

I don't know about artistic, but color palette seems to be off, and another big problem for me is large patterns. It may work better in MC where terrain features are much smaller, but on large plains of Minetest the tiling doesn't look great. It's better if most textures resolve to flat color looked at from the distance.

Here's what I've been using.
USER.zip
(7.99 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

I'm not saying they are any good, afterall they are all one-minuters hastily whipped up with Gimp, just solid color with some noise. Water not included, I couldn't be bothered with making an animated texture so I borrowed one from vilja pix iirc.

Wuzzy wrote:large amount of flowers is intended. It's directly taken from MC

I never stumbled upon anything similar in MC, I own a console version though.
 

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Version 0.44.0 (“The Elitist Release”) is here

by Wuzzy » Fri Feb 01, 2019 21:43

It's time for a new MineClone 2 version!
Yes, it's true!

Version 0.44.0 (nicknamed “The Elitist Release”) is out!

New features:
  • Add a couple of new settings in advanced settings menu
  • Add sounds for silverfish and magma cubes
  • Mobs can suffocate now, similar to players (2 damage per second)
  • Destroy items in fire
  • Endermen is now considered a monster and an enemy of golems
  • Enderman get angry when you're close (this is not quite how it works in MC, but we'll get there, eventually)

Bugfixes and balancing:
  • Greatly weaken mob knockback
  • Fix lava failing to illuminate surroundings properly
  • Minecarts: Fix failure to reset player eye height after detaching
  • Minecarts: Fix minecarts getting stuck after they got re-loaded
  • Minecarts: Now drop as item if there is no longer a rail below them
  • Fix stained glass not propagating sunlight
  • Fix crash when creating Nether portal
  • Mobs: Reduce amount of annoyingly repeated sounds (especially of slime jumps)
  • Fix typo: “Diamond Leggins”

Yeah, sorry. Still no real fix for mob overpopulation. :-(

PS: Here's a screenshot of Termos' texture experiment: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=156&p=342391#p342391
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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by texmex » Sat Feb 02, 2019 20:24

Termos wrote:I'd look for some way to do spawns from player's position perspective.


Imo that's not the way to immersion. The player immersion increases when presented with a world that seemingly carries on with or without the agency of the player. To have mobs spawn around a player, even at decent numbers, will be discovered as a trick, ruining it.

And it's not just my opinion. IIRC mobs in Minecraft rather use fixed spawnpoints, ie a specific sheep is "bound" to a certain area in. If a player enters the area, the player will find that sheep. If the player kills it, it's gone for good. No mob framework does this, yet it's one of the single most important factors for immersion. sofar was on to this when still working on entity_ai.
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.43.0]

by Termos » Sat Feb 02, 2019 22:36

texmex wrote:Imo that's not the way to immersion. The player immersion increases when presented with a world that seemingly carries on with or without the agency of the player. To have mobs spawn around a player, even at decent numbers, will be discovered as a trick, ruining it.

I'm afraid we're talking about different things.
In Minetest stuff happens only in active area centered around player anyway. I don't know about MC, but I don't see how it could be done any different.

I'm pointing out the inherent problem with using ABMs to spawn mobs, which hurts immersion.
Not to say current implementation in redo sometimes drops mobs right in front of your nose, just 10 nodes away, so much for immersion.
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.44.0]

by texmex » Sun Feb 03, 2019 06:52

Termos wrote:In Minetest stuff happens only in active area centered around player anyway. I don't know about MC, but I don't see how it could be done any different.


Of course, this is true of pretty much every game. I think we’re in agreement then. Something like ”technically spawn mobs only close to the player, but keep data on the mobs’ habitat so that they persist over time”.
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.44.0]

by meise21 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 13:42

Hi,
first of all thank you for the great game. My kids love it! We have started a savegame with the old version 0.42.0.
Since we also experienced mob overspawning I patched the Lua script of the horse mob (and api.lua).
I just downloaded the new release and copied it in the games directory. In the game I can choose between mineclone old or new version with the game selecctor. However our savegame only shows up with the old version. So I can't open our save game with the new version of the game. Do we have to change some setting somewhere or is it not possible to open savegames created with 0.42.0?

Thanks in advance,
Markus
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.44.0]

by texmex » Sun Feb 03, 2019 18:02

Hi meise21, that sounds weird. Can you upload the savegame?
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.44.0]

by MysticTempest » Sun Feb 03, 2019 18:57

Hey @Wuzzy,

Would you be willing to add this: https://github.com/MysticTempest/MineCl ... 44059bc007

It adds support for mcimport by disabling void & mapgen stuff in singlenode.

=====================================
texmex wrote:Hi meise21, that sounds weird. Can you upload the savegame?

meise21 wrote:Hi,
first of all thank you for the great game. My kids love it! We have started a savegame with the old version 0.42.0.
Since we also experienced mob overspawning I patched the Lua script of the horse mob (and api.lua).
I just downloaded the new release and copied it in the games directory. In the game I can choose between mineclone old or new version with the game selecctor. However our savegame only shows up with the old version. So I can't open our save game with the new version of the game. Do we have to change some setting somewhere or is it not possible to open savegames created with 0.42.0?

Thanks in advance,
Markus


@Texmex, @Meise21 - The fix for that issue is going into the savegame's world folder, and editing the "gameid" line in the 'world.mt' file.
It needs to be the same name you used for the new MineClone2 version you installed.

Savegame Location(Linux): ~/.minetest/worlds/NameOfSavegame/world.mt
Game Location(Linux): ~/.minetest/games/MineClone2

+ Spoiler


So, edit accordingly & restart Minetest to update the selection screen, and you should be good to go.
I have a similar setup on my system for personal tweaks, and that's how I move saves between games to test things out.
REFI_Texture Pack: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20355 - Supports MineClone2 and Minetest Game 5.0-dev
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.44.0]

by meise21 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 21:25

Hi,
thanks it is working. Problem was I just unzipped the game so I had the version number in the folder name. Thanks a lot for helping me out!

Bye,
Markus
 

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Re: [Game] MineClone 2 [0.44.0]

by MysticTempest » Tue Feb 05, 2019 00:16

meise21 wrote:Hi,
thanks it is working. Problem was I just unzipped the game so I had the version number in the folder name. Thanks a lot for helping me out!

Bye,
Markus

Ah, no prob; glad I could help!

==========

@Wuzzy
Thanks for the upcoming texture name changes! I've been testing out a combined version of my TP, and everything looks pretty good. Transitioning between games is pretty seamless.

Would you be willing to do one last name change for "farming_wheat_seed.png"?
More of a personal preference, as I forgot that MTG reuses the inventory image as a slab-like overlay on farming soil when planted.
But, I'd rather have the MCL2 item in my TP look like a seed packet for easier identification when it drops; as opposed to looking like a loose assortment of seeds.
REFI_Texture Pack: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20355 - Supports MineClone2 and Minetest Game 5.0-dev
 

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