[Game] Exile v0.3.17

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lord_of_the_dumpster
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.8c

by lord_of_the_dumpster » Post

Mantar wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 18:47
lotd: I believe I've tagged a few issues on the tracker with "good first issue" for that.
Okay, I'll check that out. I also managed to join the IRC channel as "ireallyhateirc" because "lord_of_the_dumpster" was too long apparently.
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.8c

by MisterE » Post

mantar, good to know. I'll join to keep up with the news.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.8c

by Mantar » Post

I've migrated the Exile repository to Codeberg because Github, and by extension Microsoft, can go kick rocks.
https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.8c

by Dokimi » Post

I was fiddling with things, and ended up expanding the environment sound effects.

A new version of exile_env_sounds is here: https://github.com/DokimiCU/exile_exper ... env_sounds
(I'll figure out codeberg one day... This should be straightforward. Replace current env_sounds mod with this new one. It should be working fine & has been somewhat play-tested.)

Includes:
- lava sounds
- wind in leaves sounds
- "haunting" in the undercity darkness

The haunting is the most experimental part. I'm not sure how people will find it. Might need some adjustments depending on how people find it.

So far I find it very creepy (at least to start with), and it adds some much needed dynamism to the undercity. It would go well with the idea of having ghost-like mobs wandering the city. Ghost mobs should be straightforward to add. They don't need any of the fiddly population stuff the animals have. They could be spawned like regular minetest does it, flicking in and out of existence.

To best test haunting, go into a large open area (e.g. pillar room/reservoir/etc). Then have fun losing your mind :-)
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.8c

by ShadMOrdre » Post

Hi Mantar and Dokimi,

I would like to enable built in support for Exile to my mg_earth mod. I think your players would enjoy the many features, as well as survival gameplay possibilities.

What I would need specifically is a complete biome definition, with values for every field where a node name is referenced. The numeric values are irrelevant.

Also, as a matter of stability, and cross compatibility, I would strongly recommend to you revisit biome definitions, and just ensure that each field has a default value. Relying on the mapgen to provide stone, dirt or water complicates things for other mods.

If you have any questions, let me know, and I'll provide more detail if needed.

Thank you.

Shad

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.8c

by Mantar » Post

Thanks, Dokimi, that's pretty great! I've got your ran_structures port in a branch, I hope to get it sorted and merged soon.

Shad: I'll admit that mapgen is still a bit of a black art to me, could you maybe create an issue for what needs to be done?
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9

by Mantar » Post

A new release is out! v0.3.9 is one release for all MT versions from 5.3.0 on up. Older versions might work, but have not been tested.

Changes:
- New HUD design
- Iron lantern for mid-late game players
- iron nails to add protection to nodes
- bed can now store a blanket
- cobbles, small loose stones to complement boulders
- ability to combine small wood fires after burning
- animal probe can get player stats
- options for double-click to eat: /eat2x, and wide hud: /hud16
- "crafted by" labels for craft stations
- Folded Minetest 5.3.0 compatibility into mainline
- More bugfixes than you can shake a digging stick at
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9

by Dokimi » Post

Shad:
If it's an Lua mapgen it might conflict with the mod that creates the undercity (based on the old geomoria mod)?? Can't confirm that, I just remember having crashes for things like that back when I experimented with mapgens myself.

Otherwise, its sounds like Exile just needs to add default values for all possible biome parameters in registration? Again, can't confirm, but I think unused values were just skipped (e.g. it doesn't use dungeons so there was no point in defining values). I take it skipping values causes problems for mods? If that's all, then adding in sensible defaults for unused parameters wouldn't hard (just tedious!).


ran_structures:
This will be nice to have. It's going to need a lot of schematics though to be interesting. The ones in there now are just for bug-testing. Ideally each building would be unique (or feel unique). Each one embodying some little story.

Might be something for various players etc to contribute buildings for - get people to save some of their huts from their worlds/servers etc. Then adapt them to be suitable. e.g. take some fancy build and burn it down, leave a body inside.


Mantar (&other contributors):
I'm very impressed by the progress that is being made. Well done everyone! (I had a peek at the tool-based crafting spots too. Looking good!)

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by Mantar » Post

A quick pointfix release is out. v0.3.9b includes volcanic ash appearing on volcanoes, and several bugfixes.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by Dokimi » Post

New big proof of concept experiment here: https://github.com/DokimiCU/exile_exper ... _framework

Lays out a framework for making unique characters gameplay relevant (issue #28).

How to test: overwrite Lore with replacement Lore. Add exile_awards to mods.


This is a demonstration only (some parts can be cherry picked out and merged, others are non-functional demos). The purpose is to see how it might work, uncover issues and insights. See the readme & files for (the many many rambling) notes on what this all is.

Short version: all crafting (and many other abilities) are only accessible on the basis of character backstory. Done well this feature will be great. Done poorly it will totally break the game! The key to success will probably be having powerful mechanisms for character development (i.e. unlocking new skills).

Ultimately this feature will need working through the entire game. Something to keep in mind for the overall development of almost any feature.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by Dokimi » Post

I also done a quick test of "tools_v4_dirty LGTM" (I've been looking forward to seeing what tool based crafting would be like!)

Some thoughts:
- Remove crafting tabs from main menu inventory. Too cluttered. Keep this for highest level elements only (e.g. Health/Clothing/Character/Skills/Quests).

- I really like the "put down tool/ click with hand + tabs" as a replacement for craft-spots. It's simple and intuitive. It's a nice fast way to access inventory too. Very good!

- If possible: I would suggest requiring the "rightclick with hand" to check for the top of a flat surface. The original purpose of crafting spots was to mimic the need to find a suitable workspace. Clicking on the ceiling/side of tree/grass/etc feels strange.

- I see we've brought back grind stones and weaving frames :-) This reintroduces the problems that made me remove them.
(e.g. Having 6+ types of grind stone is cluttering, but logically necessary if grind stones are a thing OR unnecessarily limiting if only a few types are allowed.
e.g. irritating crafting dependencies. I need a cobble to make a grind stone, for which I need a hammer, for which I need a grindstone, for which I need a cobble...
e.g. able to make thatch anywhere, but need a frame to make thatch slabs..
e.g. Having too many crafting stations for early tech becomes a hassle. This is when you're most likely to be nomadic, and with limited carry space.)

- Similar irritating crafting dependencies occur with Digging Stick and Hammer. As a general rule, anything that could be done with bare hands should be in a "rightclick with hand" Tab. Limit the tool crafts to things you really would need the tool for. (e.g. "boulder -> cobble" might be done by hand by breaking it on a hard surface. "Boulder -> block" would require a tool)

- Being able to put down a tool turns out to be very nice feature on it's own. There's no need to have crafts for every single tool.

- If possible: make "rightclick with hand" craft tabs do location limit checks. Then tabs can be used as a straightforward replacement for the craft spots (anything that was in a spot can be moved to a tab). e.g. click on hard rock enables "Grinding" tab, elsewhere that tab is hidden.

- Stone knife: This has always been a bit redundant. It's a legacy of very early development. Now I see it has become a potato peeler (everything else can be done easier elsewhere). Maybe move wattle crafts out of "rightclick with hand" and into stone knife/adze/axe?? (Wattle is a borderline case of "can you do this without a tool?" - it would make stone knife less pointless)

- also: Compost doesn't ferment (fermenting is due to a lack of air, which is bad for compost ). Compost "matures".

Okay then!
That's based on some simple testing. Just my impressions, and what I would feel like changing. I realize this is WIP, so if you have a better idea/good reasons etc go for it!

Overall, I'm very impressed :-)

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by lord_of_the_dumpster » Post

Hi Dokimi!
- Remove crafting tabs from main menu inventory. Too cluttered. Keep this for highest level elements only (e.g. Health/Clothing/Character/Skills/Quests).
This was somewhat a borderline feature, because I preferred global inventory while Izzyb preferred right click on hand. Izzyb's been busy recently so we merged all changes as is.
Removing the tabs shouldn't be a big problem if that's necessary.
- I really like the "put down tool/ click with hand + tabs" as a replacement for craft-spots. It's simple and intuitive. It's a nice fast way to access inventory too. Very good!
Good to hear. I wasn't sure if the system is intuitive. Personally I was thinking about NodeCore-like tool usage (chopping on the grid for example), but overall I'm happy with how it turned out to be.
- If possible: I would suggest requiring the "rightclick with hand" to check for the top of a flat surface. The original purpose of crafting spots was to mimic the need to find a suitable workspace. Clicking on the ceiling/side of tree/grass/etc feels strange.
Will implement this.
- I see we've brought back grind stones and weaving frames :-) This reintroduces the problems that made me remove them.
(e.g. Having 6+ types of grind stone is cluttering, but logically necessary if grind stones are a thing OR unnecessarily limiting if only a few types are allowed.
6+? IIRC there are only 3 now. The grinding square is about to be removed, same for bare cobble grinding.
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by lord_of_the_dumpster » Post

e.g. irritating crafting dependencies. I need a cobble to make a grind stone, for which I need a hammer, for which I need a grindstone, for which I need a cobble...
Cobbles spawn randomly everywhere on the surface and in caves, boulders spawn in caves. Hammer allows crushing boulders, but this is not necessary to make a grinding stone. So you don't need hammers for anything (unless there's a bug I'm not aware of).
e.g. able to make thatch anywhere, but need a frame to make thatch slabs..
I can fix this.
e.g. Having too many crafting stations for early tech becomes a hassle. This is when you're most likely to be nomadic, and with limited carry space.)
I don't think I added more crafting stations that the game already had, should we remove some of them? I wanted to add some redundancy (for example the pickaxe can also work as a crushing spot (hammer)).
Usually nomads use horses or camels to carry their stuff. We don't have these yet.
Nomadic lifestyle is also more challenging, so in my opinion it's up to the users who pick this option.
- Similar irritating crafting dependencies occur with Digging Stick and Hammer. As a general rule, anything that could be done with bare hands should be in a "rightclick with hand" Tab. Limit the tool crafts to things you really would need the tool for. (e.g. "boulder -> cobble" might be done by hand by breaking it on a hard surface. "Boulder -> block" would require a tool)
Can you really break a boulder using bare hands? I could possibly add another crafting ways, like dropping a boulder from a high place or hitting a boulder with a cobble until it breaks.
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by lord_of_the_dumpster » Post

- Being able to put down a tool turns out to be very nice feature on it's own. There's no need to have crafts for every single tool.
Yeah, but sometimes adding a crafting is a logical continuation of the design. As I wrote above - a pickaxe can also crush like a hammer, so it is logical for a pickaxe to have these craftings.
- If possible: make "rightclick with hand" craft tabs do location limit checks. Then tabs can be used as a straightforward replacement for the craft spots (anything that was in a spot can be moved to a tab). e.g. click on hard rock enables "Grinding" tab, elsewhere that tab is hidden.
Won't be that easy to implement, but we should be able to do this.
- Stone knife: This has always been a bit redundant. It's a legacy of very early development. Now I see it has become a potato peeler (everything else can be done easier elsewhere). Maybe move wattle crafts out of "rightclick with hand" and into stone knife/adze/axe?? (Wattle is a borderline case of "can you do this without a tool?" - it would make stone knife less pointless)
Yeah, we'll figure something out. I had no time to work on this recently.
- also: Compost doesn't ferment (fermenting is due to a lack of air, which is bad for compost ). Compost "matures".
I'm well aware of this, I know what fermentation is. I'm not a native speaker and "fermentation" was the first thing that came into my mind. I've already replaced it with "decomposition" in my private repo, but we're thinking about the proper name with Mantar.
"composted", "finished", "decomposed", "matured"?
Not sure which of these suits more.
Okay then!
That's based on some simple testing. Just my impressions, and what I would feel like changing. I realize this is WIP, so if you have a better idea/good reasons etc go for it!
Overall, I'm very impressed :-)
Thanks! The compost is highly WIP for now. I'm also planning a rework of agriculture. I'm in the process of adding fertile soils that are crafted from compost and a sediment. (I can give you the details if you want).
Anyway, you didn't comment the new tilling mechanism - the digging stick, the shovel and the iron hoe I added do tilling by subsequent punching (left click) on a soil. Would like to get your feedback on this (users liked it so far).
Also I assume that you like the 3D models of tools I made.
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by DreamsInBlocks » Post

Dokimi wrote:
Thu Dec 01, 2022 14:48
...all crafting (and many other abilities) are only accessible on the basis of character backstory....
When you put it that way, my first reaction is that my character, lacking all the desired skills, will store up food and do stonework and weave basic clothes... and then offs himself knowing that the next incarnation will use his collected material. With any luck she will know how to make dye and smelt iron, and if she falls short of skills she leaves her production to the next... and so on. In multiplayer this is an opportunity for community; in singleplayer, the devaluing of life to achieve your goals seems like a strong negative incentive to the basic survival aspect of the game.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by Mantar » Post

Yes, I'm aware of the perverse incentives. (I'm pretty deep into tabletop RPG stuff and how design affects player actions)
I won't be implementing it quite like that. When character backstory/professions go in, I will assume all characters have at least a basic competency in most things*, and will only miss out on minor side elements, and perhaps some nice bonuses, that they might get from a different profession.
(And the stick to the new-life carrot is that the improved respawn system will mean you're likely to have a modest chance of respawning far enough away to have some difficulty reaching your previous location)

It would also be possible to disable or simplify the profession system in a singleplayer world, and I may go that route as well. (There are already a handful of things that change if you run singleplayer vs hosting a server.)

* In a world where you might get seized at any time and chucked through a portal to die in a faraway wilderness, I assume most people would spend a little time here and there learning how to survive if they were exiled. You'd at least teach your kids these things, in case they grew up to make some poor life choices and got tossed.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by pandaro » Post

hi folks
I'm try to clone exile repo but get some trouble, there is a way...?


git clone https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile
fatal: unable to access 'https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile/': server certificate verification failed. CAfile: none CRLfile: none

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by pandaro » Post

ok, just downloaded as zip and extract, seem works, dont know what happend with certificates

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9b

by Mantar » Post

Huh, not sure what would cause that, probably some network problem. I can clone just fine from codeberg now, so whatever it was, it's apparently sorted now.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9d

by Mantar » Post

V0.3.9d is out, a pointfix release with a few small changes:
- Add an alignment tool to complement the lever
- Fix grass spreading, grass dying in shade, and landscape waffling
- Gateway effects for incoming characters, courtesy of Dokimi
- Better intro screen
- Bugfixes
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9d

by lord_of_the_dumpster » Post

Looks like the irc server is dead.
Anyway I managed to add roots to the API, looks good so far.
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9d

by MisterE » Post

lord_of_the_dumpster wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 19:31
Looks like the irc server is dead.
Anyway I managed to add roots to the API, looks good so far.
no, it was just that the bridge was bugging out.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9d

by Mantar » Post

Yeah. One of the irc servers was down for a bit, but the nice thing about IRC is it's decentralized, so you can always connect to one of the other servers on the network.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9d

by Dokimi » Post

Sorry for slow replies :-)

lord_of_the_dumpster:
Thanks for trying to keep me in the loop.

Don't feel like you need to make an effort to keep me updated. I'm deliberately trying not to get too involved (if I'm showing up here I'm probably trying to distract myself from something else!). It is very tempting for me to jump in and micro-manage, but I do not want to do that to people.

Trust yourselves, follow what you think is good design rather than something I've said based on a few minutes testing ;-)

I mostly just look at things out of curiosity (or dump some random experiment on you all because I started fiddling and got carried away!). You guys are doing a great job & I'm very impressed.

Tool-crafts: The main thing I was going for in #138 https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile/issues/138 was to get rid of unnecessary dependancies. That was about flexibility and opening up choice, so the game can be played with a wider range of playstyles. So, while most of the time you have a stick/cobble/etc what about those rare times when you don't? e.g. play testing with new grind stones I found myself stuck in a cave that had no cobbles, so faced the catch-22 described above.

new tilling mechanism: took a me a moment to figure it out, but after that it was fine. Looks good!

WIP seasons for exile: Haven't tested, but that sounds amazing! All that stuff was definitely on my wishlist. I'm excited to see what that's like.

3D models: Yes they look great!

Okay, I'll refrain from more comments, because I'll just be micromanaging. Good job people. Looking great!

Character backstory experiment
"and then offs himself knowing that the next incarnation will use his collected material."

Yup. That was the biggest issue to come out of that experiment :-)

I think there are ways around it, though

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.9d

by TX Miner » Post

Will more mobs be added soon?

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