[Game] Exile v0.3.17

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

By furniture do you mean the various crafting stations? Place them and right click to see recipes.

The only actual furniture in the game is beds. Place them and right click to regain energy. Right click on the bed again to leave it. You need to be in a comfortable temperature range.


To get started open your inventory and place a crafting spot on the ground, and right click it.

To start upgrading your tech you'll need a grinding stone, which requires granite that is found at -30 and below. That will allow you to chop tangkal logs which give you chopping and hammering blocks, and a brick maker's bench for better building options. After that comes iron and then maraka logs, as well as tech paths for farming and clothing.

Charcoal is needed for all higher level industry. You can get hints from the walkthrough in the /doc folder in the mod.

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

One change I'd like to see is to add falling_node to drystack slabs and stairs. Piling rocks on top of eachother is fine for building a wall, but not so much for a roof or staircase.

In game terms, this would push all self supporting slabs/stairs to 2nd tier building materials like mudbrick and rammed earth that require a brick maker's bench, though they wouldn't require mortar so they'd still be useable as a basic construction material. Even then, an argument could be made that realistically they should both have falling_node, requiring us to place beams of sticks to support them like primitive buildings do in real life. It just depends if the added complication is worth bothering with, though it would give a reason to go to the effort of making mortared bricks as well as making thatch roofs necessary for early buildings.

---

Minor building exploit follows. I'm putting it in spoiler tags for people who don't want to be tempted to do it by knowing what it is.
Spoiler
There's also a bit of a cheat using slabs to make windows. No slabs pass temperature, since that would make them useless as a roofing material. This allows us to use slabs in the middle of a wall to make windows that the game treats as a solid wall for insulation purposes. This is great on kilns and furnaces because I hate having to continually tear down one wall to see if things are done yet and to place/remove objects being cooked. The slab windows allow me to do both, so while I think it's unrealistic I kind of want to see it stay. :P

Is there an easy way to make the temperature pass check for half blocks only work vertically and not horizontally? If they do get fixed, I'd love to get some kind of windowed door for my kilns so I could check on progress, but I'm not sure that would be able to fit early enough in the tech tree to matter.
---

IMHO, drystack should also not be treated as watertight for holding puddles and spreading water. Due to it's place on the tech tree I'm assuming drystack in game is loosely piled stones as opposed to tightly fitted worked stones, since that would require advanced tools. This would really only affect creating water drainers and cisterns from scratch instead of carving them into soft stone, thus delaying the move from caves to buildings.

Maybe right clicking gravel or conglomerate blocks with an iron pickaxe could convert them to worked stone, which would then be used to make worked drystack that functions like drystack does now. There would be materials with similar properties earlier in the tech tree though, so again I'm not sure it's worth it.

Jackknife
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Jackknife » Post

Nemesis wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 02:50
By furniture do you mean the various crafting stations? Place them and right click to see recipes.
No sorry I meant to put furnace not furniture.
I didn’t notice the typo.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

I think the furnace is just a leftover from basic minetest, and doesn't actually do anything in Exile. The standard workbench is also included in the game, and does nothing. Both are in the list of nodes, but neither are buildable.

All recipes are either done in inventory, or by burning/drowning things on landscape.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Jackknife » Post

Okay that’s what I thought.
The work bench never got a texture update so I figured it probably wasn’t important.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Jackknife » Post

I think a fishing pole or a fishing spear should be added, just using a club or mace seems ridiculous.
I’m pretty sure they didn’t catch fish that way in medieval times.
I noticed there wasn’t a sword included for fighting spiders or anything bigger but maybe that’s a little overkill.

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Mantar
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Mantar » Post

Nemesis: Good points about drystacks, I hardly ever use them (gravel is a bit rare in both of my main worlds) and didn't notice they could hang in mid-air. Falling_node should definitely belong on those. Allowing them to let water pass is reasonable, too; it just need a drystack_wet node and a bit of code to handle drystacks as a special case of non-sediment that water can flow through.

Jackknife: A fishing spear or pole would be a decent addition, yeah. Those rope bridges look nice as well.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

Mantar wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 18:26
Nemesis: Good points about drystacks, I hardly ever use them (gravel is a bit rare in both of my main worlds) and didn't notice they could hang in mid-air. Falling_node should definitely belong on those. Allowing them to let water pass is reasonable, too; it just need a drystack_wet node and a bit of code to handle drystacks as a special case of non-sediment that water can flow through.
I don't think it should hold water, after all it's just a pile of rocks. It just shouldn't prevent moisture spread either. That might require a new group type (ie loose_rock) and a new conditional in moisture_spread that keeps passing water to the next node in line until it finds a node that can hold it.

In game terms, since it's no longer waterproof it wouldn't protect fires from the elements or keep a house interior dry. It would reduce drystack from a basic building material to something only suitable for fencing in farmland, though that's historically accurate. The only times I could find drystone being used for actual building, it was with carved blocks or naturally occuring stones that were very large and perfectly flat and symmetrical.


I'm surprised gravel is rare for you. I always get tons of it near water and in shallow caves. On the other hand, it took me dozens of worlds before I ever saw basalt, and that was large surface deposits in duneland hills. Duneland and marshland are somewhat rare for me, which always makes finding anperla and cana difficult.

Jackknife
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Jackknife » Post

The information hud or whatever you call it overlaps with each other, it makes seeing the temperature and item names difficult.

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Mantar
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Mantar » Post

Nemesis wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 15:28
I don't think it should hold water, after all it's just a pile of rocks. It just shouldn't prevent moisture spread either.
Well, I say "hold," but the only way for a node to hold water semi-permanently is to have impermeable or wet nodes below and surrounding it, otherwise the moisture just moves on through.
I suppose I could add a "permeable" group and ABM that handles non-sediments, and has an decreased interval/increased chance for water to move through.
I'm surprised gravel is rare for you. I always get tons of it near water and in shallow caves. On the other hand, it took me dozens of worlds before I ever saw basalt, and that was large surface deposits in duneland hills. Duneland and marshland are somewhat rare for me, which always makes finding anperla and cana difficult.
On both my main worlds open water is like an in-game day's walk away, and caves have a thin layer, but are also a bit of a walk from where I set up. All that makes gravel kind of impractical for building vs clay/rammed earth/wood/thatch/etc.
Jackknife wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 17:06
The information hud or whatever you call it overlaps with each other, it makes seeing the temperature and item names difficult.
What Minetest version are you running? I've found my hud size scales differently depending on which version I'm testing. I keep having to tweak advanced settings to get e.g. the world browser to be readable without all the text running out the window.

In other news, the crop_rewind branch had its first successful test run last night with a carefully prepared world. Once I ironed out the dumb mistakes I made when I wrote climate/history.lua a couple of nights earlier, I was able to get some Zufani mushrooms to go from 595 ticks of growth remaining, down to 171 in one fell swoop just by re-entering their area.
Now I either have to hook up all the various non-consumable plants, or refactor climate/life.lua and then do it, because that file is a huge ungainly mess ATM and I kinda want to rework it to where it's at least semi-readable.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

Mantar wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 17:52
On both my main worlds open water is like an in-game day's walk away, and caves have a thin layer, but are also a bit of a walk from where I set up. All that makes gravel kind of impractical for building vs clay/rammed earth/wood/thatch/etc.
Interesting. On every world I make the landscape is littered with caves and chasms, many completely open to the sky so that I don't even need a torch to collect gravel. I usually end up with granite on day 1 because I'm able to just walk down far enough, no ladders required. Sometimes I'll be lucky enough to get the sea draining into one so I can just swim down and back up the waterfall.

On the other hand I've only found a large wet clay deposit once, which makes mudbrick and pots slow to make as I have to wait for rain and collect it in smaller amounts.

This is consistent across many worlds using the latest version. I wonder where the difference is coming from.
In other news, the crop_rewind branch had its first successful test run last night with a carefully prepared world. Once I ironed out the dumb mistakes I made when I wrote climate/history.lua a couple of nights earlier, I was able to get some Zufani mushrooms to go from 595 ticks of growth remaining, down to 171 in one fell swoop just by re-entering their area.
Nice!
While you're looking into crops...

Currently we can only till soil, not loam blocks. Since my worlds are about 95% grassland I was hoping it would be possible to dig or mix loam and place it anywhere, then till it and irrigate it. Instead I have to hunt for a woodland biome with a large area of woodland soil to settle down in, preferably wet woodland soil.

At some point could you add the ability to till blocks, or perhaps a mixing spot recipe to turn blocks into soil of the appropriate type?

I've also done extensive experiments using a freshwater source (both fixed and flowing water) in the hopes it would spread moisture and give me wet ground to work with, both for farming and producing wet clay in bulk. No luck. Is there something I'm missing?

It would be a bit unbalancing to produce endless amounts of wet ground/clay this way, so I was going to propose a recipe to mix blocks and water to get wet blocks. However given the difficulty of getting fresh water it would have needed to be a 1 water + X blocks kind of recipe, which would then lead to those blocks being drained for free water. It would be too exploitable.

I guess wet blocks from natural sources is the only balanced way to do it.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Mantar » Post

Being unable to till bare dirt is kind of a balance thing, you either need to wait for grass to spread to it, or else to mix wood ash with it to make agricultural soil. Tilling basically lets you turn grasses into fertilizer as a shortcut already.

A water source can eventually move into (and sometimes back out of) a dry sediment node below or adjacent to it; water wants to move downward mostly, until it hits bedrock. It's also possible for it to evaporate before that happens, if it's exposed to air above or to its side.
The best way to get lots of wet clay is to hang out in a savanna region for a while, especially around the rainy season; water will accumulate down below next to the bedrock and you can dig out big sheets of wet clay. In multiplayer, a player living in a savanna biome would have a ready supply of trade goods for all the things that biome lacks.

The best way to irrigate a field is to dig up wet blocks and sit them on top of your agricultural soil, then replace the ones that turn up dry every now and then. Maybe cover them, too.
It's also a good idea to put your crop fields directly above bedrock, or some other impermeable node, so the water can't flow back out, and the plants, being not-air, will prevent evaporation.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

Mantar wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 19:13
Being unable to till bare dirt is kind of a balance thing, you either need to wait for grass to spread to it, or else to mix wood ash with it to make agricultural soil. Tilling basically lets you turn grasses into fertilizer as a shortcut already.
Aha! Thanks. I thought adding fertilizer was only for turning depleted ag soil into ag soil again. Ash is easy to get, and as long as I have a way of making portable loam ag soil so I can settle where I like, I'm happy.
The best way to irrigate a field is to dig up wet blocks and sit them on top of your agricultural soil, then replace the ones that turn up dry every now and then. Maybe cover them, too.
It's also a good idea to put your crop fields directly above bedrock, or some other impermeable node, so the water can't flow back out, and the plants, being not-air, will prevent evaporation.
Thanks for the advice.
I was doing that in my tests; making a walled garden bed of mudbrick and planting loam in it, then trying various things involving freshwater sources to try and soak them because I was looking for an irrigation canal type system.

Good to know plants will prevent evaporation. That was a concern I hadn't gotten to yet. I guess planting a stick on top of the wet blocks is an easy way to keep them covered for evaporation purposes until they're ready to be used.

I had one world where it didn't rain for the first 2 weeks and I had no wet clay to get pots started with. It forced me to stay put hoping for rain until I just made a new world.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Mantar » Post

That's a situation where I'd dig up a wet riverbed and place the soil on top of some clay.
For farming, loam agricultural soil is the best, but silt works well as a substitute. Clay is pretty poor for farming, but will work okay if you manage to set up the wet agsoil version.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

Jackknife
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Jackknife » Post

I was using Minetest 5.4.1

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

One feature request since I'm on a bit of a farming binge at the moment... Could you add mixing spot recipes for turning wet sediment into wet ag soil? Currently if we dig up wet soils they can't be fertilized, so we have to dig up dry soil, fertilize it, then wet it. It would be nice to skip a step if we just want to move existing soil.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Mantar » Post

Jackknife: I can confirm the hud is the wrong size with 5.4.1 and a clean .minetest/ folder. It's odd; I haven't actually touched the code for the hud beyond adding the fahrenheit/kelvin modes for temperature display. I'm not sure why it's like that.
As a workaround until I can deal with it, I suggest going into advanced settings->graphics->menus and setting ui scaling to 0.8, as I apparently have been using that for some time.

Nemesis:
That would obviate the need to irrigate it with a layer of wet soil, but that's a non-obvious mechanic that needs to be de-obscured, and I can't think of a good reason why you couldn't mix fertilizer into wet soil. I'll see about adding the recipes. Maybe I'll require you to make "wet wood ash" and have that as an intermediate step between wood ash and the potash solution that glassworking introduced, so you're not adding one wet block and one dry block to get two wet blocks.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

Mantar wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 05:04
That would obviate the need to irrigate it with a layer of wet soil, but that's a non-obvious mechanic that needs to be de-obscured, and I can't think of a good reason why you couldn't mix fertilizer into wet soil. I'll see about adding the recipes. Maybe I'll require you to make "wet wood ash" and have that as an intermediate step between wood ash and the potash solution that glassworking introduced, so you're not adding one wet block and one dry block to get two wet blocks.
Currently the recipe is 1 sediment + 1 ash = 1 ag soil. I assumed the wet recipe would just be 1 wet sediment + 1 ash = 1 wet ag soil.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Mantar » Post

Huh, right you are! Well in that case it's no problem.

Did a bit of coding last night. Fixed a minor bug: when you lay in bed, it saves your position so you can be placed back where you were when you get up; exiting the game (or a crash) would lose this information, and you'd be placed standing up on the bed, which meant players with small huts would have their heads jammed inside the roof and have to break out. Now we save the bed_rest info and put newly joined players back to their original location.

Also added the crop_rewind function for all the non-cane plants, but testing showed some of them are not replaying their history for some reason, either a logic flaw, typo, or something I did when adding code to the five or six different places where plants are defined in life.lua. I hope to ferret this out soon.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Nemesis » Post

Mantar wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 18:24
Huh, right you are! Well in that case it's no problem.
Yay. To complete the chain, perhaps a matching recipe for wet loam to go along with the one for loam? Wet silt + wet sand + wet clay = 3 wet loam.

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Mantar » Post

Nemesis: Sure, I might as well add that too.

Crop rewind is now merged into master along with some more fixes/improvements, new releases will be coming soon. All crops apart from the aforementioned cane (which needs different handling) will now catch up on lost time when you come back from adventuring; growth times have been turned back up now that you don't need to babysit. I also enabled minetest's built-in catch-up feature for the cane growth and mushroom spread ABMs, we'll see how that plays out with some testing. If people start seeing mushroom explosions that one might need to be switched back off.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.2

by Mantar » Post

A new release is out now!
- Plants now grow even when the player is away
- Fireproof Iron doors and trapdoors
- Ability to mix wet loam and agricultural soil
- Renamed stone chopper to stone knife for clarity
- More bug fixes and improvements

A slight note, those of you with long-running worlds may notice a sudden temperature change when loading in the new version, it's just a bugfix. Exile's year is supposed to be 80 days long, but a bug caused annual climate to restart every 78.5 days, leading to about 30 minutes drift in a 26 hour (1 year in-game) session.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.3

by Nemesis » Post

Thanks for all your work, I really like this mod.

After upgrading to 3.3 I get an error. Whenever weather is occuring I get loud, heavy distortion along with the sound for the weather. This goes away when I bring up the in game menu and only the normal weather sounds are heard, but the the distortion returns when I close the menu.

Playing the sound files outside the game is fine.

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Mantar
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.3

by Mantar » Post

Huh, I had that happen to me one time recently when testing, but it didn't happen the other times I started up. I just thought it was Pulseaudio being stupid -- PA doesn't like my motherboard's onboard sound card and occasionally it decides to start doing weird stuff and garbling sounds from specific applications (but not others) until I restart it. (I want to give a shout out to Lennart Poettering for making Linux more like the Mac/Windows, big thanks. Good code.)
I'll look into the problem, hopefully I can get it to happen again.

Edit: Found it, fixed it. It's super late now, but I'll do a pointfix release in the morning
Edit 2: Electric Boogaloo: And now v0.2.6b/v0.3.3b is up on contentdb.
Lead dev of Exile, git repo: https://codeberg.org/Mantar/Exile

Nemesis
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Re: [Game] Exile v0.3.3

by Nemesis » Post

Thanks for the quick response, but I'm still getting the sound errors, even after a reboot.

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