Minetest Forums

Here, I made a csm menu so that people don't have to be overwhelmed installing a simple csm or struggle to find the information on enabling csm.

https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/10039

yes, we REALLY need a CSM-Tab ... its a pain to change the file by hand every time -.-

Unfortunately Paramat and wuzzy are expressing a strong desire to remove CSM outright.

jas wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 18, 2020 16:55

Unfortunately Paramat and wuzzy are expressing a strong desire to remove CSM outright.

To quote paramat:

Please keep in mind i do not feel very strongly about this.

Conext btw: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/is ... -645052847

I don't believe him when he says that. He is an advocate for Shara, also. Paramat doesn't even run a server.

If he doesn't care either way, why then has he created so many issues, posts, and replies to comments suggesting that A) CSM was a mistake, and B) it should be removed.

This has been ongoing for years, sir

jas wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 18, 2020 17:28

I don't believe him when he says that. He is an advocate for Shara, also. Paramat doesn't even run a server.

If he doesn't care either way, why then has he created so many issues, posts, and replies to comments suggesting that A) CSM was a mistake, and B) it should be removed.

This has been ongoing for years, sir

It doesn't matter if he feels strongly about it or not. His feelings have no power, it's his words that do. And his words say that he doesn't feel too strongly about it.

He's had 3 years to make those posts in. It's also quite bad that SSCSM hasn't been implemented in that time.

He is only one dev anyway, see my Reddit reply https://www.reddit.com/r/Minetest/comme ... _sscsm_is/

Well I disagree. Strongly.

Lone_Wolf, thanks for writing some sense here.

jas wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 18, 2020 16:55

Unfortunately Paramat and wuzzy are expressing a strong desire to remove CSM outright.

See my comment https://github.com/minetest/minetest/is ... -645052847
Quoting myself:

"As i have commented elsewhere, although i am not particularly sure about this, i somewhat feel it would be best for MT to give up on CSM soon and remove it completely."

"Please keep in mind i do not feel very strongly about this."

Literally not a 'strong desire'.
It is a feeling that MT might be better off without CSM. I am unsure, like 60% sure.
I will not oppose the development of SSCSM, it is better than the current halfway situation.

Further quotes of user 'jas':

> I don't believe him when he says that.

Surely you must realise by now, as most people do, that i forthrightly write what i think, to the extent that it makes me unpopular =)
It is ridiculous to tell someone they do not mean what they write. By doing that, you can essentially accuse anyone of anything, no matter what they write, and ignore or disregard anything they write.
If you lie about me, or do so with intent to raise resentment against me, i will correct you.

> He is an advocate for Shara

Not at the moment. Shara has been inactive in MT for many months now.
If i ever supported Shara's opinions it was because i believed they were right. I am not someone who fights for someone elses cause that i do not believe in.

> Paramat doesn't even run a server.

Correct. But i fought for the interests of server owners when CSM was added in 0.4.16 without restrictions, which allowed players to use CSM to cheat. I was the first to realise the problem, and made more fuss about it than any core dev.
If you look back through the history of CSM development, i have actually been somewhat of a 'CSM hero' of server owners.
I am only the 'CSM enemy' to those who want to use CSM to cheat or misbehave on servers.

> If he doesn't care either way, why then has he created so many issues, posts, and replies to comments suggesting that A) CSM was a mistake, and B) it should be removed.

This is a misunderstanding and/or a misrepresentation of my comments and opinions.
I do not 'not care either way', i am not neutral.
The 'mistake' i have often written about was about 'how CSM was implemented', not 'CSM being implemented at all'.
Since CSM was added in 2017 i have made more fuss than any other core dev asking for SSCSM to be completed.
I have rarely written about removing CSM, and each time it was a suggestion i did not feel strongly about.

Ok, now Reddit:

> They say CSM should be removed until SSCSM is implemented

Only i have requested that, and no other core dev has agreed with or supported that. The chances of that happening are roughly zero.

> And in the same breath say we cannot have SSCSM because "security concerns"

No. 2 core devs, myself and rubenwardy, are concerned about the security issues related to SSCSM, and this is only one of several reasons why i wonder if SSCSM is worth adding.

You sure do type an awful lot. Almost like you're trying to explain your position, but just getting more stuck.

You do you, my dood.

paramat wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 22, 2020 02:52

Literally not a 'strong desire'.
It is a feeling that MT might be better off without CSM. I am unsure, like 60% sure.
I will not oppose the development of SSCSM, it is better than the current halfway situation.

No. 2 core devs, myself and rubenwardy, are concerned about the security issues related to SSCSM, and this is only one of several reasons why i wonder if SSCSM is worth adding.

If you think a game engine can run everything in the server then you're out of your mind

Ah you know what, I'll just repost the angry rant I posted into my discord.


Client side modding is literally the least of the security holes in MTE

For example, you can create a mod which spawns so many particles server side that it crashes peoples computers

People will exploit shit no matter what it is, what about servers in the server list that literally explain "your ip may or may not be sold to a third party"

You can disk write spoof and regen to overwork people's hardware if they have map saving on when they log into a server

You can spoof entities that are non collision detection in the server but sent out as collides with such a huge collision box along with so many of them that even them being loaded into the client environment the calculations freeze and crash your computer

And along with that? What about the ability to spoof with a very easy setting to flip in the server env which you can load and delete entities server side but it does not tell the client that it was deleted therefor becoming a memory bomb which fills up the client computers ram crashing it if their system cannot compensate with swap

The list goes on, and on and on and on, I'm sick of this piss poor reasoning on holding back/taking away features

If they're so scared that literally anything can be exploited then they better delete the whole engine and start over with 300 steps ahead kept in their vision

The contentdb (content.minetest.net) just needs an csm part, then it will be installed correct and then it could be enabled in the content tab for sure.

But i also want to make an executable to install them and enable them, with an api for textures