"Prevent placing node when player would be inside new node"

Sokomine
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"Prevent placing node when player would be inside new node"

by Sokomine » Post

I've got a problem with the recent change "Prevent placing node when player would be inside new node" and severely dislike it.

Due to that change, it is no longer possible to place a block where you're standing. At first this sounds like a very logical limitation. Unfortionately, there are several situations where it severely interferes with building, while not making anything better at all. My houses are usually small and very detailed - a 2 block wide floor is pretty common, and the handrail and/or wall is thin. Now, with this change, it is no longer possible to get into the right position for placing these slim nodes.

Also it is no longer possible to conveniently "pillar up" (place block, jump up), which is very useful for reaching the right location for adding nodes to your building.

I think the controls ought to work in such a way that they do not interfere with/hinder building. If needed, this new functionality might be turned into an option for PvP-servers where building houses is considered a violation against server rules.
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by Inocudom » Post

Hmm, I think it would be nice if the selection cube itself could be rotated (this would determine the initial orientation of nodes that are placed and make using the screwdriver easier.)

I can't really choose one of the above options, because I suggest that the feature you mentioned should have a way of being toggled on and off, just like running, flying, and noclip do.
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by Novacain » Post

This has bugged me too. It makes it really difficult for building and for the disable camera update "feature."
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by Sokomine » Post

Seems I can't change the poll questions in retrospect.

How do you think the selection cube ought to be rotated? Can you explain further?

Turning noclip on allows to place the nodes and is an exception for the code above. But you don't want everyone running around with noclip on, and noclip does make building even more difficult. A new option for that would be ok. Servers enabling that option could then easily indicate that they don't want builders and are for PvP only.
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by Novacain » Post

Sokomine wrote:Seems I can't change the poll questions in retrospect.

How do you think the selection cube ought to be rotated? Can you explain further?

Turning noclip on allows to place the nodes and is an exception for the code above. But you don't want everyone running around with noclip on, and noclip does make building even more difficult. A new option for that would be ok. Servers enabling that option could then easily indicate that they don't want builders and are for PvP only.

I assume you are suggesting the noclip - freemove enables placing blocks where you stand?
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by Sokomine » Post

There's an extra exception in the code for players with noclip on. It just doesn't help much as noclip is not useful for building.
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by hoodedice » Post

I have a problem with this too. In MC, the jump and place is a big mess. I don't want a similar mess here.
7:42 PM - Bauglio: I think if you go to staples you could steal firmware from a fax machine that would run better than win10 does on any platform
7:42 PM - Bauglio: so fudge the stable build
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by addi » Post

this is just annoying :-( please revert this!

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by PilzAdam » Post


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by Topywo » Post

Inocudom wrote:Hmm, I think it would be nice if the selection cube itself could be rotated (this would determine the initial orientation of nodes that are placed and make using the screwdriver easier.)
That would really be nice.

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by Casimir » Post

It needs to be polished, but in general i like it. Without you were able trap yourself inside nodes you can not dig.

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That one was obvious. I knew which one you where linking to before I clicked it ;)

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by Novacain » Post

PilzAdam wrote:http://xkcd.com/1172/
Haha, lol. The thing though is, this doesn't improve Antones workflow, so why was the change made? Was it a strive for realism (in a game!!) or was it to fix a bug in the machine that caused problems?
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by PilzAdam » Post

Dont forget that you can easily disable the behaviour by enabling "noclip", even if you dont fly.

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by Inocudom » Post

Topywo wrote:
Inocudom wrote:Hmm, I think it would be nice if the selection cube itself could be rotated (this would determine the initial orientation of nodes that are placed and make using the screwdriver easier.)
That would really be nice.
To make rotating the selection box easier (I guess the middle mouse button could be used for this,) a holographic image of the node to be placed could be shown in it.
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by Pitriss » Post

PilzAdam wrote:Dont forget that you can easily disable the behaviour by enabling "noclip", even if you dont fly.
Hmm hmm IMHO getting noclip on survival servers is almost impossible..

This change should be really reverted..
Last edited by Pitriss on Sat Feb 08, 2014 15:45, edited 1 time in total.
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by qwrwed » Post

Pitriss wrote:
PilzAdam wrote:Dont forget that you can easily disable the behaviour by enabling "noclip", even if you dont fly.
Hmm hmm IMHO getting noclip on survival servers is almost impossible..

This change should be really reverted..
I agree.

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by PilzAdam » Post

Hybrid Dog wrote:
PilzAdam wrote:Dont forget that you can easily disable the behaviour by enabling "noclip", even if you dont fly.
Does it work without the noclip privilege, too?
No.
Pitriss wrote:
PilzAdam wrote:Dont forget that you can easily disable the behaviour by enabling "noclip", even if you dont fly.
Hmm hmm IMHO getting noclip on survival servers is almost impossible..

This change should be really reverted..
Well, survival servers are the kind of servers that want this behaviour anyway.
Creative servers should make building as easy as possible, and they can give noclip without problems.

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by Novacain » Post

Chances are you will get fly before noclip. If you have fly, then it doesn't really matter. If it could be changed so that it behaves like that when no-clip is enabled, even if you don't have the priv, then that would work.
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by webdesigner97 » Post

I think this should not be reverted, but changed to "prevent placing node when player's head would be inside new node"

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by bloster » Post

I vote yes, but maybe it should be an option ?

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by hoodedice » Post

Inocudom wrote:
Topywo wrote:
Inocudom wrote:Hmm, I think it would be nice if the selection cube itself could be rotated (this would determine the initial orientation of nodes that are placed and make using the screwdriver easier.)
That would really be nice.
To make rotating the selection box easier (I guess the middle mouse button could be used for this,) a holographic image of the node to be placed could be shown in it.
I second that! A node with 50% transparency could be used for this
7:42 PM - Bauglio: I think if you go to staples you could steal firmware from a fax machine that would run better than win10 does on any platform
7:42 PM - Bauglio: so fudge the stable build
7:43 PM - Bauglio: get the staple build

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by Sokomine » Post

PilzAdam wrote: http://xkcd.com/1172/
These users are annoying, arnt't they? :-) Can't people just stick to compile the game and never ever use it? :)
Casimir wrote: It needs to be polished, but in general i like it. Without you were able trap yourself inside nodes you can not dig.
Hm, I was always able to dig the node if that happened accidently. Plus some teleportation/home command mods teleport you half inside the floor block - jumping is required to get out. And if you look at it that way, the current behaviour isn't exact either - because those nodeboxes I want to place are very small and *can* physically be placed where the player stands - it's just the same node. The player can afterwards walk along there without trouble. Only one side/exit might be blocked.
PilzAdam wrote: Dont forget that you can easily disable the behaviour by enabling "noclip", even if you dont fly.
Noclip is very seldom granted and has other side effects. Plus it does not help that much - with noclip, it's far more difficult to reach the correct position to place a node. Same goes for fly - it's not always the best option for reaching the right position. Of course, If you only ever build with full blocks and stick to the most simple house design, it may not matter.
PilzAdam wrote: Well, survival servers are the kind of servers that want this behaviour anyway.
Creative servers should make building as easy as possible, and they can give noclip without problems.
Perhaps this problem/misunderstanding aroses from how survival and creative are interpreted. I prefer to play on survival servers - gathering ressources is somehow fun, and - more important! - steering/placing blocks feels somehow easier in survival. In creative, some things work differently or not at all.
For people who want real survival/hardcore/realism, this client-based enforcement might not be enough anyway.
Inocudom wrote: To make rotating the selection box easier (I guess the middle mouse button could be used for this,) a holographic image of the node to be placed could be shown in it.
That would be very fine. I already thought about a tool with which you could point at nodes and call up a formspec which offers all 24 possible orientations. I just don't know yet how those orientations could be presented best. Any ideas?
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by Casimir » Post

It might have happened to someone else but me; when you build a bridge, sneaking high above the abyss, and you accidentally place a node on the wrong place you fall down all the way. - Can't happen any more.

@ Sokomine
Do the following: dig a hole 3 nodes deep into stone and throw away your picaxe, jump inside, place one stone above you, one at your feet and one where your head is.

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by Sokomine » Post

Casimir wrote: Do the following: dig a hole 3 nodes deep into stone and throw away your picaxe, jump inside, place one stone above you, one at your feet and one where your head is.
The "throw away your pickaxe" is the critical point here I think. With empty inventory, falling into a hole where you can't jump out and everything around you is stone (or not diggable by hand) is enough to get you stuck as well. That's what /spawn and/or a home command are for.
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by Casimir » Post

Yes, Minetest is the game where you type /time 6000 every ten minutes. That is what makes it feel so incomplete.
In an actual game you should not have to type any commands, and things like "placing node when player would be inside new node" just should not be part of normal gameplay.
Last edited by Casimir on Sat Feb 08, 2014 19:33, edited 1 time in total.

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