[Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

[duane]

It seems that on dry places, the humidity is higher when climbing up. That should be the contrary.

That caused too many problems with the default game, so I had to take it out, along with the increase in humidity near the shore. I've put it back, to some extent, in the lua of the mc branch, but I've still got the part that compensates for the different soil depth handling commented out. Which version of what are you using in the screenshot?

Edit: Here's the same location with the mc branch enabled. Hopefully, it looks a bit more like you expect, and humidity would drop off slightly more with the soil depth code enabled.

Trying to juggle all the different mods (including default) is harder than I expected.

[Gael de Sailly]

Which version of what are you using in the screenshot?

Latest Minetest with core valleys mapgen, vanilla minetest_game.

[Gael de Sailly]

Snow seems to be inverted too.
(tested with core valleys mapgen + valleys_mapgen mod mc branch)

[duane]

Snow seems to be inverted too.
(tested with core valleys mapgen + valleys_mapgen mod mc branch)

It does look strange in that case. In most of the maps I've generated, the snow tends to stick to the heights. Bear in mind that we're seeing the biomes being selected by the closest temperature/humidity combination (as opposed to only temperature being used to place snow, etc.), and the noises for temperature/humidity aren't the same as in the lua. The altitude chill is used in exactly the same way.

Edit: Whoops, I was thinking default game. Let me check with the mc branch.

I'll look for any problems in the code.

Edit: Ok, here's a bigger picture of the same area. It's pretty much all snowy, but there's no actual snow blocks being placed, just snowy blocks. The snow blocks there are left over from the default biomes. I can fix that.

[Fixer]

Is it possible to enlarge everything proportionally, to make everything 10x bigger? :) You know, when climbing 200 nodes tall mountain with forests is not thrilling enough. Don't mention 2000 nodes tall MERU that I climbed :}

P.S. I've spent whole day walking on a Valleys C++ merged into MT and it looks so awesome, I'm so happy with it :}

[duane]

I've spent whole day walking on a Valleys C++ merged into MT and it looks so awesome, I'm so happy with it :}

That's good to hear. I hope everyone enjoys it.

Is it possible to enlarge everything proportionally, to make everything 10x bigger? :) You know, when climbing 200 nodes tall mountain with forests is not thrilling enough.

Sure you can, but you'll have to use the lua version (select any mapgen other than valleys and enable the Valleys Mapgen mod). The stock spawn routine can't handle the huge terrain, and spawns you underground.

Put this in your minetest.conf file:

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#    Base ground height
vmg_noise_1 = -100, 500, (10240,10240,10240), 5202, 6, 0.4, 2

#    Valleys noise
vmg_noise_2 = 0, 1, (2560,2560,2560), -6050, 5, 0.6, 2

#    Valleys depth
vmg_noise_3 = 50, 40, (5120,5120,5120), -1914, 1, 1, 2

#    Valleys profile
vmg_noise_4 = 0.6, 0.5, (5120,5120,5120), 777, 1, 1, 2

#    Inter-valleys slopes
vmg_noise_5 = 0.5, 0.5, (1280,1280,1280), 746, 1, 1, 2

#    Inter-valleys filling
vmg_noise_6 = 0, 1, (2560,5120,2560), 1993, 6, 0.8, 2

You'll probably also want to multiply your vmg_altitude_chill, unless you really like snow. I suspect you'll have to make it larger than 900, since the altitude chill code decreases temperature logarithmically (whereas, reality decreases it linearly).

If you insist on using the C++ mapgen, here are the corresponding noises, but plan on spawning at 0,0,0 every time.

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# Base terrain height
mg_valleys_np_terrain_height = -100, 500, (10240, 10240, 10240), 5202, 6, 0.4, 2.0

# River noise -- rivers occur close to zero
#mg_valleys_np_rivers = 0, 1, (2560, 2560, 2560), -6050, 5, 0.6, 2.0

# Raises terrain to make valleys around the rivers
mg_valleys_np_valley_depth = 50, 40, (5120, 5120, 5120), -1914, 1, 1.0, 2.0

# Slope and fill work together to modify the heights
#mg_valleys_np_inter_valley_fill = 0, 1, (2560, 5120, 2560), 1993, 6, 0.8, 2.0
#mg_valleys_np_inter_valley_slope = 0.5, 0.5, (1280, 1280, 1280), 746, 1, 1.0, 2.0

# Amplifies the valleys
#mg_valleys_np_valley_profile = 0.6, 0.5, (5120, 5120, 5120), 777, 1, 1.0, 2.0

View from Mount Lookithat.

[Gael de Sailly]

You'll probably also want to multiply your vmg_altitude_chill, unless you really like snow. I suspect you'll have to make it larger than 900, since the altitude chill code decreases temperature logarithmically (whereas, reality decreases it linearly).

I know, that's not very realistic, but I wanted temperature and humidity parameters to be always positive (and don't remember why). And I love exponential functions !!!
you should change altitude_chill in the same proportions. If your terrain is 10x higher, change it from 90 to 900. Multiply also average_snow_level and average_stone_level (I don't know what are the corresponding parameters on the C++ mapgen).

[Fixer]

Hmm, I've tried on C++ one and what is curious is that most of mountains look like big spikes, is it possible to lower the slope angle and spread them out a bit?

[Xanthin]

What I've noticed now are patches where the river steps over the riverbed like here.

Unfortunately, I had to choose between that and really high banks in places where the river happens to be low. We can add another parameter for the actual water depth to make that adjustable. My concern was that people would get irritated if they fell into a river and couldn't get out immediately.

Thanks for your reply. I was curious and used the fast flag. That seemed to solve it when I tested it with a new world but same seed and compared both. Unless this is just a coincidence, or something I don't understand without the needed knowledge. There is still here and there a sand or dirt block to step out of the water or a little stripe where the water is even with the land. That's at least enough for me. :)

What I thought that will change for the final version is the single source placement of water/lava in caves (often both types close together). Is this an intended behaviour or will it be changed in the future?

Simple caves work that way by design. Putting in groups of sources requires another noise, ideally a 3D noise, which I was trying to avoid since speed is one of the few advantages of the C++ version, and the appeal of Valleys tends to be focused above ground. Nodes appear randomly on the floor of any cave.

I had intended to make the version 7 caves available as well, but the most efficient way to do that involves templates, and some of the people compiling had issues with those. How and where would you like to see lava/water spawn?

Oh, I just had the v7 caves in mind, for the how and where, which I simply got so used to (althoug the massiv lava caves in paramat's rivergen are also cool). Of course I understand this, that speed is important, as well as usability for everyone.
And yes, the world above is impressive enough to keep you at the surface. :)

[duane]

Hmm, I've tried on C++ one and what is curious is that most of mountains look like big spikes, is it possible to lower the slope angle and spread them out a bit?

I generally like to double the range (the parenthesized numbers) of the river and valley fill noises in my maps, which makes the mountains less pointy:

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mg_valleys_np_rivers = 0, 1, (512, 512, 512), -6050, 5, 0.6, 2.0
mg_valleys_np_inter_valley_fill = 0, 1, (512, 1024, 512), 1993, 6, 0.8, 2.0

[duane]

Oh, I just had the v7 caves in mind, for the how and where, which I simply got so used to (althoug the massiv lava caves in paramat's rivergen are also cool).

I went ahead and put in a pull request to add V7 caves back to the valleys mapgen. Those who like to compile might try testing the code. It worked fine on my system for months, but there were compilation issues that may or may not have had anything to do with the template I used.

[Betta]

this mapgen is awesome i've even manage to make islands in the middle of the ocean.

+ Spoiler

+ Spoiler

+ Spoiler

[duane]

What I've noticed now are patches where the river steps over the riverbed like here.

Well, after thoroughly reviewing the code, I found a place in the original lua where a crucial comparison uses "y + 1", but the C++ code just uses "y". So the non-fast method is, in fact, generating too much water. Good work spotting that.

This is the relevant patch, in case anyone is interested.

Code: Select all

diff --git a/src/mapgen_valleys.cpp b/src/mapgen_valleys.cpp
index a919b8d..67f820b 100644
--- a/src/mapgen_valleys.cpp
+++ b/src/mapgen_valleys.cpp
@@ -727,7 +727,7 @@ int MapgenValleys::generateTerrain()
                                } else if (river && y < river_y) {
                                        // river
                                        vm->m_data[index_data] = n_river_water;
-                               } else if ((!fast_terrain) && (!river) && fill * slope > y - surface_y) {
+                               } else if ((!fast_terrain) && (!river) && round(fill * slope) >= y - surface_y) {
                                        // ground (slow method)
                                        vm->m_data[index_data] = n_stone;
                                        heightmap[index_2d] = surface_max_y = y;

It still overflows on occasion, but not as often when that's corrected. What bothers me is why the fast method doesn't.

Edit: Actually, it's not that simple. When you use the nofast flag (by default), the entire world is generated one node too low -- except for the rivers. It's all relative, of course, but this leaves the heightmap produced by the mapgen off by one.

[Fixer]

Oh, I just had the v7 caves in mind, for the how and where, which I simply got so used to (althoug the massiv lava caves in paramat's rivergen are also cool).

I went ahead and put in a pull request to add V7 caves back to the valleys mapgen. Those who like to compile might try testing the code. It worked fine on my system for months, but there were compilation issues that may or may not have had anything to do with the template I used.

So there will be valleys caves (default) and V7 caves for our choosing?

[duane]

So there will be valleys caves (default) and V7 caves for our choosing?

Well, we changed it to the V5 caves, which are basically the same but don't require any template madness. However, the Valleys Mapgen default caves are not included -- they require a lot more processing time. Only the simple caves and V5 are included.

If anyone wants to try them early, the code is on github.

Edit: By the way, the river issue has been fixed in the mainline code, and should be available in daily builds soon.

[blert2112]

So there will be valleys caves (default) and V7 caves for our choosing?

Well, we changed it to the V5 caves, which are basically the same but don't require any template madness. However, the Valleys Mapgen default caves are not included -- they require a lot more processing time. Only the simple caves and V5 are included.

If anyone wants to try them early, the code is on github.

Edit: By the way, the river issue has been fixed in the mainline code, and should be available in daily builds soon.

Nice! Just got done merging, compiling and roaming around. Have a question or three for you...
Which noise deals with the V5-large_caves, 'mg_valleys_np_cave1' or 'mg_valleys_np_cave2' (thinking 2)?
Probably a stupid question... Does the 'v5_caves/nov5_caves' flag allow to toggle between simple and V5 caves or are simple caves always used?
It is possible for the V5 cave gen to makes enormous caves (ala Paramat's Subterrain mod)?

edit: answered my own stupid questions by looking at the code. derp

How much faster is C cave gen then LUA? Is it worth the bother if I try to hack in how Paramat did Subterrain into the C cave gen routine?

[duane]

Which noise deals with the V5-large_caves, 'mg_valleys_np_cave1' or 'mg_valleys_np_cave2'?

Neither. They just make the irregular caves around the large ones.

Does the 'v5_caves/nov5_caves' flag allow to toggle between simple and V5 caves or are simple caves always used?

The V5 caves have irregular passages similar to simple caves, but only one or the other is ever used. [Simple caves was based on paramat's Intersect, so it ended up looking a lot like his code.]

It is possible for the V5 cave gen to makes enormous caves (ala Paramat's Subterrain mod)?

At the moment, I believe it's confined to one map chunk. If you can catch paramat at a time when he's not busy, you might get him to add them.

Edit:

How much faster is C cave gen then LUA? Is it worth the bother if I try to hack in how Paramat did Subterrain into the C cave gen routine?

According to the lua people, lua runs about half as fast as C (which is amazing for an interpreter). All of my tests confirm that in Minetest. Since the large caves are not going to affect the generation of the overworld, being deep underground, I don't think I'd be in a rush to put it in the C++ code unless it turned out to be trivial or there was a universal demand.

On the other hand, I doubt anyone would turn down an option to add them if you put it together and submitted a pull request.

[paramat]

The large caves added as part of the option are generated by pseudorandom noise, not perlin noise, the code is in 'cavegen.cpp', they are the same large caves as used in mgv5/v6/v7/flat/fractal. Their size is limited to mapchunk plus mapblock shell, so 7x7x7 mapblocks = 112x112x112 nodes.

The option just added is actually large pseudorandom caves plus the 3D perlin noise tunnels from mgv7/flat/fractal.

My experience is Lua is 20 times slower than C++ for general mapgen stuff.

Concerning the merged C++ mgvalleys:

I propose a change of plan for caves, i'm not keen on how random lava and water nodes are placed in the simple caves, and i'm uncomfortable with how complex and unfocussed this mapgen is becoming with all the options. What do you all think about making the new caves option the standard and removing the simple caves option? The simple caves tunnels are excellent but are similar to the 3D noise tunnels of mgv7, but we will gain underground caverns flooded with water and lava.

I'm also not sure about keeping the fast terrain option, the mapgen is already fast and the option makes the code more complex. I would prefer this mapgen to have a more defined character and be focussed on creating terrain faithful to the original.

Duane, i will probably ask you to alter your latest PR for the caves option.

[Fixer]

I propose a change of plan for caves, i'm not keen on how random lava and water nodes are placed in the simple caves

I like this feature, please don't kill it, there should be at least some danger when mining, standard lava pools are so boring and rare...

[Gael de Sailly]

My experience is Lua is 20 times slower than C++ for general mapgen stuff.

Really?!?
I thought it was around 3 times. If that's really 20 times, that's really useless to make some complicated features to make it several percent faster, except if your computer is very, very slow.

[duane]

My experience is Lua is 20 times slower than C++ for general mapgen stuff.

I suspect we're both right, but for devious reasons. Lua runs very fast, and as far as crunching numbers, C/C++ doesn't beat it by much, but every time you make a call to the minetest functions, there's a lot of overhead involved. (Of course, that's why the voxelmanip routines were added, to try to keep this to a minimum.)

The lua version of Valleys is a sterling example of optimal lua code, and it only takes about twice as long to do more than the C++ mapgen does. So, in that case at least, the speed difference is not a huge factor (unless you need every ounce of speed for your server).

I propose a change of plan for caves, i'm not keen on how random lava and water nodes are placed in the simple caves, and i'm uncomfortable with how complex and unfocussed this mapgen is becoming with all the options. What do you all think about making the new caves option the standard and removing the simple caves option? The simple caves tunnels are excellent but are similar to the 3D noise tunnels of mgv7, but we will gain underground caverns flooded with water and lava.

I like the simple caves, even over the 3D noise in mgv7. There are palpable differences to my eye, and I'm fond of the many water/fire falls that random lava/water placement creates (even above ground). However, I can patch them in myself. The only real question is, what do the rest of the folks here think?

I'm also not sure about keeping the fast terrain option, the mapgen is already fast and the option makes the code more complex. I would prefer this mapgen to have a more defined character and be focussed on creating terrain faithful to the original.

I agree. I'm still fond of the fast terrain, but I find myself using the regular option more often.

I propose a change of plan for caves, i'm not keen on how random lava and water nodes are placed in the simple caves

I like this feature, please don't kill it, there should be at least some danger when mining, standard lava pools are so boring and rare...

Agreed. I even had an option to spew random water and lava outside of the caves at one point, but it got pretty messy.

[duane]

What do you all think about making the new caves option the standard and removing the simple caves option?

I like the simple caves, even over the 3D noise in mgv7. There are palpable differences to my eye, and I'm fond of the many water/fire falls that random lava/water placement creates (even above ground).

Another option would be to make the V5 caves more flexible and/or less static.

If necessary, I'll put the extra lava and water into a mod, but some people might not appreciate having to load another mod for what they see as a mapgen function. That presumes, of course, that I'm the only one who prefers the simple caves' shape over the standard caves'.

As far as complicating the code goes, I can solve that by pasting in the seven lines of code that ask cavegen to create the larger caves, to the end of the simple caves function. Then you get the (my) best of both worlds, and none of the other mapgens are affected. I think this is going to be the go-to option for my personal build.



You have big caves, ragged caves, lava pools, swimming pools, and more fire/water falls than you can shake a stick at. Add some colossal caves and weak rock that falls on you, and you've got a real party... but that'll have to wait.

If anyone wants to try this option, the code is on my frankencaves branch.

[blert2112]

As far as complicating the code goes, I can solve that by pasting in the seven lines of code that ask cavegen to create the larger caves, to the end of the simple caves function. Then you get the (my) best of both worlds, and none of the other mapgens are affected. I think this is going to be the go-to option for my personal build.

+1

Add some colossal caves and weak rock that falls on you, and you've got a real party... but that'll have to wait.

I don't like waiting. :( Yeah, it's way beyond me to do it properly myself. ;)

As for the lava/water falls in the caves. Too much for my taste. Though, I have a mod that variably reduces lava at different depths.

edit: I use the fast flag. It doesn't look that much different and feels much faster on my system. I could give you numbers but I assume you already know them.

[duane]

As for the lava/water falls in the caves. Too much for my taste. Though, I have a mod that variably reduces lava at different depths.

Well, the mg_valleys_water_features setting lets you control how much random water appears (0-10). The mg_valleys_lava_max_height setting controls how high or low random lava appears. Neither affects the big caves, just the simple caves part.

[duane]

I don't like waiting. :( Yeah, it's way beyond me to do it properly myself. ;)

The basics of subterrain aren't hard to put in, anyway. These things are freakishly huge, too. They need their own weather mods. It's still slow -- there's no getting around big features taking a long time, but I disabled large caves in any chunk that has a piece of a massive cave (to avoid lava/water appearing in mid-air), so they're not unbearable.



This is a small one. The simple caves break through where they intersect, occasionally resulting in falls. The source code is on frankencaves.