[Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Thu Mar 10, 2016 19:32

azekill_DIABLO wrote:where is cave stuff = false in the mod? i can't found it.


In your settings tab:
Code: Select all
advanced settings
- mods
  - valleys_mapgen
    - mapgen
      - caves
        - features
          - cave stuff

It's disabled by default.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by paramat » Mon Mar 14, 2016 09:01

duane, i merged this PR https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3850 that affects mgvalleys.
I tested it and mgvalleys caves seem okay, but as i don't completely understand the code perhaps you could check this isn't subtly breaking something?
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Mon Mar 14, 2016 18:14

This map is really deadly. I spawned in a deasert biome, Trier to find The next tree, cut one block, made an axe and then I was attacked by sandmonster.

In another world i spawend in a snow biome and walked and walked and I starved before I found any food
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Arcelmi » Mon Mar 14, 2016 18:44

I like this mod!

Good job!
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Mon Mar 14, 2016 23:56

paramat wrote:duane, i merged this PR https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3850 that affects mgvalleys.
I tested it and mgvalleys caves seem okay, but as i don't completely understand the code perhaps you could check this isn't subtly breaking something?


I can't see how it could harm anything, and the shape of the caves doesn't seem to be affected at all. Nice job.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Tue Mar 15, 2016 00:03

burli wrote:Love this mg. Are there any known issuse with other mods?


If you're running the built-in version in the latest minetest source, it's compatible with pretty much everything, but it doesn't give you the wider variety of trees and plants on its own. The lua code, downloadable here, adds lots of attractive features to the general terrain, but it won't work with anything that uses decorations, such as farming+.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Tue Mar 15, 2016 00:07

burli wrote:This map is really deadly. I spawned in a deasert biome, Trier to find The next tree, cut one block, made an axe and then I was attacked by sandmonster.

In another world i spawend in a snow biome and walked and walked and I starved before I found any food


If you want a little less challenge, you can always turn on the "cave stuff" option in the advanced options. The giant mushrooms are good for food and sticks, even in the harshest terrain, and you can usually find a cave anywhere. Just make sure the goblins don't get you.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:17

OK, now I need some explanations. There are two versions of valley mg, a Lua and a C++ version. I downloaded the current minetest code from github. Which version is there included?

And the valley_c helper is an add-on for the C++ version?
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:27

burli wrote:OK, now I need some explanations. There are two versions of valley mg, a Lua and a C++ version. I downloaded the current minetest code from github. Which version is there included?

And the valley_c helper is an add-on for the C++ version?


The version of valleys included in the new minetest code is a classic mapgen coded in C++. All it does is create rock and water. Other minetest functions use the mapgen v7 biomes and the decoration system to put in more interesting nodes by default.

The original version of valleys, available here, not only generates terrain, but adds in plants, soil, etc. Its main disadvantages are that it's slower and incompatible with some other mods.

However, you can also use the drop-down mapgen with some other "mapgen" mods, such as ethereal, valleys_c, and this version of valleys. When you run the valleys mapgen in the minetest drop-down list and enable the lua mod you find here, the latter will adapt itself to add plants and other features to the terrain, but it still remains incompatible with some other mods.

There is no right or wrong way to run them. Some like one combination, some another.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Wed Mar 16, 2016 08:34

Ok, thx. I like the built in valley mapgen with the valley_c helper. Is the crops mod compatible whith that?

And what exactly adds the cave stuff option?
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Wed Mar 16, 2016 22:33

burli wrote:Ok, thx. I like the built in valley mapgen with the valley_c helper. Is the crops mod compatible whith that?

And what exactly adds the cave stuff option?


I don't know of any mods off-hand that aren't compatible with valleys_c. The cave stuff option doesn't apply to it. It has cave stuff by default.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Wed Mar 30, 2016 06:23

Is it possible that the player always spawns near a forest biome? Yesterday I spawned in a gras biome. Couldn't find a tree at the first day. Had to fly to find trees. That is to frustrating
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:04

burli wrote:Is it possible that the player always spawns near a forest biome? Yesterday I spawned in a gras biome. Couldn't find a tree at the first day. Had to fly to find trees. That is to frustrating


It might be possible, but it wouldn't be easy. There aren't any biomes in the lua version of Valleys -- things just grow where they grow. For the C version, you'd have to change the minetest code, and it's already pushing the reasonable limit of spawn retries. It would be a lot easier just to tinker with your humidity noise to make more trees.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by paramat » Wed Mar 30, 2016 20:32

> Yesterday I spawned in a gras biome. Couldn't find a tree at the first day. Had to fly to find trees. That is to frustrating

This is a common complaint, the new biome system can have large biomes, the only solution is to try a few seeds when starting a new world. Or have an adventure and explore to find another biome. If you're 'unlucky' you may have to walk a few 1000 nodes, i see that as a nice excuse to travel and see the beautiful landscapes. Minecraft players may panic from the habit of rushing to make a house before night.
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by paramat » Wed Mar 30, 2016 20:38

duane, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3727 we would like to sort out this issue soon so, are you keen to create a biosphere core mapgen? personally i'm not keen on the idea of having this as a core mapgen but it's only fair i ask other contributors before closing the issue.
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Thu Mar 31, 2016 03:23

paramat wrote:duane, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3727 we would like to sort out this issue soon so, are you keen to create a biosphere core mapgen? personally i'm not keen on the idea of having this as a core mapgen but it's only fair i ask other contributors before closing the issue.


I wouldn't even attempt to put it into C until I see it in lua. Let me put together something to see if there's really any interest. I'm assuming we don't have this already.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Thu Mar 31, 2016 08:28

paramat wrote:Or have an adventure and explore to find another biome. If you're 'unlucky' you may have to walk a few 1000 nodes, i see that as a nice excuse to travel and see the beautiful landscapes.


If you play with hunger you may not survive. It you play with mobs you might be dead befor you can find a stick. And if you have to start a game multible times just to find a place you can survive the first day there is something wrong with the game.

My solution probably will be to find a few dozends of playable seeds and select one, if that is possible in the game without rewriting half of the code
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Thu Mar 31, 2016 13:16

duane wrote:
burli wrote:It would be a lot easier just to tinker with your humidity noise to make more trees.


Can you give me a hint? Which file? Which values? Have no idea how to start
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Thu Mar 31, 2016 14:05

burli wrote:
duane wrote:
burli wrote:It would be a lot easier just to tinker with your humidity noise to make more trees.


Can you give me a hint? Which file? Which values? Have no idea how to start


For the minetest mapgen, this minetest.conf setting controls humidity. Raising the first number raises the average. The scale is the second number, so the normal range is roughly 0 to 100. Trees appear when the humidity is around 65.

Code: Select all
mg_biome_np_humidity = 50, 50, (750, 750, 750), 842, 3, 0.5, 2.0


For the lua mod, this setting controls it, and again the first number raises or lowers it. In this case the normal range is -1 to 1.

Code: Select all
vmg_noise_18 = 0, 1, (243,243,243), -5787, 4, 0.5, 3
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by paramat » Thu Mar 31, 2016 22:04

> And if you have to start a game multible times just to find a place you can survive the first day there is something wrong with the game.

It's an unavoidable result of noise, biomes vary a lot in size, if we reduce biome size then there will be too many ridiculously small biomes, it's a balance. If there are trees everywhere then all biomes would be forests. For modded survival it's reasonable to try a few seeds to end up near a forest.

We might be adding bushes to grassland, which would help by providing small amounts of wood.

If you adjust average humidity you will make deserts, tundra, grassland biomes rare and small.
 

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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Don » Fri Apr 01, 2016 03:29

Maybe we should look at adding things like food source and items other than wood for making tools to the biomes that are problematic. Deserts do have cactus that could restore some health or add pear cacti for health. Tumble weeds could be crafted into sticks for making tools. There are things that we could do to make it work.

The mapgen is great. It just requires more items to make it work.
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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Fri Apr 01, 2016 05:25

Well, adding items would help. Also adding ores to sandstone caves. But it is still boring if you have to cross huge dead biomes
 

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