[Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

User avatar
duane
Member
 
Posts: 1299
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 19:11
Location: Oklahoma City
GitHub: duane-r

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by duane » Fri Jun 17, 2016 05:34

paramat wrote:I tried boating through mgvalleys and the rivers are too narrow, when a jungletree generates with a root in the river it is impassable.
Also, the noise controlling the river pattern is too small scale, creating little loops.


The size of the river loops is mostly up to personal taste, but I'd recommend doubling the spread, as I did up there.

As for the boating, you're going to have to increase the default river size to at least eight to make the rivers at all navigable, and even then you're likely to have a lot of problems. I wouldn't recommend making it much higher than that though, because I seem to get a lot of overflows when I set it up to ten. I don't know why that should be.
Believe in people and you don't need to believe anything else.
 

User avatar
burli
Member
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 13:18

Re: Plains

by burli » Fri Jun 17, 2016 06:08

duane wrote:I've never seen a completely flat plain in reality (and I live in the Great Plains).

I've never seen a guy carrying thousands of cubicmeter dirt and other stuff with several 100 thousand tonns of weight ;-)

duane wrote:If you want more generally flat terrain, try these noises (again, it will not actually be flat):

mg_valleys_np_rivers = 0, 1, (512, 512, 512), -6050, 5, 0.6, 2.0
mg_valleys_np_inter_valley_fill = 0, 1, (512, 1024, 512), 1993, 6, 0.8, 2.0


this looks nice

Image
Attachments
screenshot_20160617_075745.jpg
(109.83 KiB) Not downloaded yet
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:58

Mapgen parameters are very customizable. I'm sure that some settings will give you the plains you expect. But the mapgen settings are absolutely not user-friendly :-/ so much that I still have difficulties in finding the good settings.
What we do really need is simplified mapgen settings. The current mapgen settings interface is based on 10 to 20 noises per mapgen, and every noise is defined by 7 to 9 data. That might be good sometimes, but generally that's annoying. We need simple settings with recognizable names, like "mountain heigth", "steepness", "distance between rivers", … that, when changed, tune some noise parameters to produce the wanted effect, for example increasing the "distance between rivers" would increase the spread (numbers in brackets) of mgvalleys_np_rivers. The original "advanced" mapgen settings should still stay available.
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

User avatar
burli
Member
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 13:18

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:46

So what you need is an algorithm that translates a slider position e.g. for mountain height into noise settings. No idea if this is possible
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Fri Jun 17, 2016 17:04

That's possible, obviously, but it needs the mapgen settings system to be reworked.
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by paramat » Fri Jun 17, 2016 19:44

Increasing the spread of the river pattern will automatically increase river width, x2 would be fine and enough.
 

sofar
Developer
 
Posts: 1997
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 07:31
GitHub: sofar
IRC: sofar
In-game: sofar

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by sofar » Sun Jun 19, 2016 05:10

Rivers are the great geomorphological equalizers: they break down hills and deposit them near sealevel, building out deltas. The Netherlands is nothing but a large delta, but other transport mechanisms can make flat-ish looking landscapes, such as waves and wind.

What I mostly miss in minetest at the moment isn't large flat areas, because those exist, but just areas that only have (up to) 4-5 nodes altitude deltas total over 100+ nodes. Minetest's meadows have no vertical range limits and cliffs often break them out. The shape of meadows also is clearly still a curve or slope, while a terrace is a far more natural feature for true geological flat regions (usually river banks forming them).
 

User avatar
TumeniNodes
Member
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 19:49
Location: in the dark recesses of the mind
GitHub: TumeniNodes
IRC: tumeninodes
In-game: TumeniNodes

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by TumeniNodes » Thu Jun 23, 2016 20:04

sofar wrote:Rivers are the great geomorphological equalizers: they break down hills and deposit them near sealevel, building out deltas. The Netherlands is nothing but a large delta, but other transport mechanisms can make flat-ish looking landscapes, such as waves and wind.

What I mostly miss in minetest at the moment isn't large flat areas, because those exist, but just areas that only have (up to) 4-5 nodes altitude deltas total over 100+ nodes. Minetest's meadows have no vertical range limits and cliffs often break them out. The shape of meadows also is clearly still a curve or slope, while a terrace is a far more natural feature for true geological flat regions (usually river banks forming them).


I have been playing around with mapgens attempting to create the "perfect" landscape (similar to what you describe, I think?)
Nice, large, low, buildable areas, with a wide river running through it, with maybe 5-6 or 7 nodes high banks along it's edge..., with gradual rolling hills in the distance and eventually mountains in the far background.
A "perfect" scene to build towns with small industrial works along the river, and to build nice bridges across, etc..
It becomes to monotonous if one has to shape a river out. I have started it a few times (even used the ultimate weapon mod to try to speed it up) but that ultimate weapon can be unruly :D
But to have said river open into a nice marsh area and into a large body of water would be really nice
I'm not your buddy, guy...
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Thu Jun 23, 2016 21:16

sofar wrote:What I mostly miss in minetest at the moment isn't large flat areas, because those exist, but just areas that only have (up to) 4-5 nodes altitude deltas total over 100+ nodes.

Deltas are possible, but it needs to add at least one noise. We can sometimes find a marsh like this, similar to a delta:ImageThat's due to a noise that has a very low spread distance (actually that's the river noise #2 that has 5 octaves and a high persistance). So we need to add a noise value with a very low spread, the value would be usually small and would become much bigger on low altitude, for example with v1=v0*e^(-elev²). I'll try this.
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

User avatar
azekill_DIABLO
Member
 
Posts: 7469
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 20:05
Location: OMICRON
GitHub: azekillDIABLO
In-game: azekill_DIABLO
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by paramat » Sat Jun 25, 2016 22:42

Gael de Sailly, are you interested in improving the noise parameters of core valleys? The main change needed being increasing the 'rivers' noise spread for wider, boatable, rivers and a larger river pattern with fewer small loops and circles. Just doubling 'rivers' noise may be enough. I was going to tune the mapgen myself but i think you're the ideal person.
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Sun Jun 26, 2016 07:50

paramat wrote:Gael de Sailly, are you interested in improving the noise parameters of core valleys? The main change needed being increasing the 'rivers' noise spread for wider, boatable, rivers and a larger river pattern with fewer small loops and circles. Just doubling 'rivers' noise may be enough. I was going to tune the mapgen myself but i think you're the ideal person.

Of course I'm interested :)
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by paramat » Sun Jun 26, 2016 23:34

> I tried boating through mgvalleys and the rivers are too narrow, when a jungletree generates with a root in the river it is impassable.
Also, the noise controlling the river pattern is too small scale, creating little loops.

^ Those are the main issues.
I can make the actual PRs and do the complex git stuff so all you need to do is concentrate on the time-consuming work of tuning the noise parameters.
Improvements to the mapgen code can be discussed too.
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Mon Jun 27, 2016 21:36

This is what I have for now:
Code: Select all
mgvalleys_np_rivers = 0, 1, (384, 384, 384), -6050, 4, 0.25, 4.0
mgvalleys_river_size = 4
mgvalleys_np_valley_profile = 0.4, 0.4, (512, 512, 512), 777, 1, 1.0, 2.0
mgvalleys_np_valley_depth = 6, 4, (512, 512, 512), -1914, 1, 1.0, 2.0
mgvalleys_np_inter_valley_slope = 0, 1, (256, 256, 256), 746, 3, 0.5, 2.0

Rivers are wider and have small meanders and irregular riverbanks. The terrain has also been made steeper. I'll take a screenshot tomorrow.
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

User avatar
paramat
Developer
 
Posts: 3344
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 00:05
Location: UK
GitHub: paramat
IRC: paramat

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by paramat » Mon Jun 27, 2016 21:42

No rush, you have until 0.4.15 to experiment.

EDIT I got this:

Image
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Tue Jun 28, 2016 09:57

paramat wrote:I got this:

Image
That's still not what I expected… I'll work on it this today again.
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

User avatar
burli
Member
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 13:18

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Tue Jun 28, 2016 17:06

The lua version has no specific biomes, right? Plants are just hard coded by values
 

User avatar
burli
Member
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 13:18

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Tue Jun 28, 2016 18:43

Lua Valleys is sometimes a little bit messy. Don't know what that mean.

Image

I didn't found a real desert or savanne, just small spots of desert sand or dry grass. And I found a small spot of snow which is also a little bit odd

How can I change this?
Attachments
screenshot_20160628_203012.jpg
(538.12 KiB) Not downloaded yet
 

User avatar
TumeniNodes
Member
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 19:49
Location: in the dark recesses of the mind
GitHub: TumeniNodes
IRC: tumeninodes
In-game: TumeniNodes

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by TumeniNodes » Tue Jun 28, 2016 20:25

I am very excited to see wider rivers, with far less looping... I'm following this dev closely : )
I LOVE building bridges...
I'm not your buddy, guy...
 

User avatar
azekill_DIABLO
Member
 
Posts: 7469
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 20:05
Location: OMICRON
GitHub: azekillDIABLO
In-game: azekill_DIABLO
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:38

burli wrote:Lua Valleys is sometimes a little bit messy. Don't know what that mean.

Image

I didn't found a real desert or savanne, just small spots of desert sand or dry grass. And I found a small spot of snow which is also a little bit odd

How can I change this?

I like this kind of biomes. They are simply places where dirt thickness falls to zero, leaving stone apparent.
Maybe you don't like the fact that 1 node out of 2 is grass (I do but I can understand that some people don't like it). A random factor is added to the dirt thickness value for every node (in mapgen.lua line 394) I'll add a way to tweak that.
If you don't want bare stone, you can tweak noise 7, by increasing the first parameter (average dirt thickness) and/or decreasing the second (amplitude of variation), like this:
Code: Select all
vmg_noise_7 = 5, 1, (256,256,256), 1605, 3, 0.5, 2

Dirt thickness is also decreased by elevation, so you should also change vmg_average_stone_level, that is usually 180, to a higher value like 400.
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

User avatar
burli
Member
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 13:18

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by burli » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:52

Thank you for explanation, but you misunderstand me a little bit. I just want to know why that happens.

But I can't find any larger deserts or savannah (what's the plural?). That's what I want to change.
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:07

I wrote:A random factor is added to the dirt thickness value for every node (in mapgen.lua line 394) I'll add a way to tweak that.

Done. The setting is "dirt_random_factor". 0 = clear limit between grass and stone. 1 is default.
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

User avatar
Tomas Brod
Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 13:57
Location: Slovakia
In-game: Brod

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Tomas Brod » Sat Jul 09, 2016 09:11

How much of functionality is currently ported to the mapgen_valleys.cpp ?
(another way) Which one of the current versions is better? What are the gains of using (slower?) Lua version?
Thank you. I like this mapgen the most. The overview map by paramat looks good.
I did experiments with real-flowing rivers but unfortunately my algorithm is not chunk-local thus did not get far.
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 703
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
Location: Lyon, France
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly Ginkgoo

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

by Gael de Sailly » Sat Jul 09, 2016 21:34

This is the original Lua version, created more than a year ago. It has been merged in the core on January, thanks to paramat and duane. I've somewhat dropped the Lua version after this date (so it's a little outdated but should still work). But all has not been merged. In fact, the C++ valleys mapgen has only the terrain from Lua VMG. It uses the core's biome system (like v7) but with temperature decreased by elevation and humidity increased near the rivers, like in Lua VMG.
Lua VMG has a different biome system, more plants, and a different way to generate trees; that has not been merged. So, for me both are interesting. I may use the Lua VMG to experiment some new features.
Tomas Brod wrote:I did experiments with real-flowing rivers but unfortunately my algorithm is not chunk-local thus did not get far.

Rivers are strictly the same between both versions. They are unfortunately not "real-flowing".
You can see the Canyon Mapgen by MillersMan, that implements real-flowing rivers. It still generates some strange square cliffs, but seems very promising. But I don't manage to understand the code. I would love to see a mix between both mapgens.
Contributor of Minetest and OpenStreetMap, on Ubuntu 16.04. ~ ~ ~ Meet me on MinetestForFun, VanessaE's Basic, Capture the Flag and Inside the Box.
 

PreviousNext

Return to WIP Mods



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests