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Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 00:23
by TumeniNodes
Just needs waterfalls now ; )

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 20:33
by voxelproof
TumeniNodes wrote:Just needs waterfalls now ; )


Small waterfalls are possible in Valleys already, however they are strictly dependent on caves. With some tweaking of rivers parameters there do occur also quasi-waterfalls (not strictly vertical).

Image

Image

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 14:27
by voxelproof
@Gael : what do you think about this:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21916
?

Seems that Termos invented sorta pretty decent model of water erosion. By making some flash-flooding here and there you could greatly improve look of your mapgens by removing soil from the steepest slopes uncovering bare rock beneath. I think that all MT map generators lack such outcrops, they would make landscapes looking much more diverse and interesting (more reference points to orientate in monotonous hilly terrain).

And, vice versa, adding more soil on less steepy hills to cover rocks would also do much good to the "reality" of terrain.

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 22:51
by Gael de Sailly
voxelproof wrote:@Gael : what do you think about this:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21916
?

Seems that Termos invented sorta pretty decent model of water erosion. By making some flash-flooding here and there you could greatly improve look of your mapgens by removing soil from the steepest slopes uncovering bare rock beneath.


I've looked quickly into his code, but he is using ABMs for that, which is not the approach I would prefer for this kind of stuff (might lead to weird results on the long run). But I will definitely try it out and give my feedback. Anyway the idea is interesting, thank you for sharing this.

voxelproof wrote:By making some flash-flooding here and there you could greatly improve look of your mapgens by removing soil from the steepest slopes uncovering bare rock beneath. I think that all MT map generators lack such outcrops, they would make landscapes looking much more diverse and interesting (more reference points to orientate in monotonous hilly terrain).

And, vice versa, adding more soil on less steepy hills to cover rocks would also do much good to the "reality" of terrain.

This is something I've been thinking about a little, at first I thought that outcrops naturally appearing between the soil layers on steep slopes would be enough, but the result is indeed very weird and unrealistic (typically the cliff at the left background on the (very old) image below). So yes, soil thickness should be dependent on slope too.
+ Image


Notice that for this mapgen, I actually didn't focus that much on geological realism, it was more for aesthetics purposes, and the reproduction of the shapes of valleys, mountains, etc... is purely empirical.
If I want to make something more "geologically accurate", I will switch to another project from scratch.
I already have some ideas for procedural map generation that I may put into practice one day.

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 23:41
by voxelproof
Gael de Sailly wrote:Notice that for this mapgen, I actually didn't focus that much on geological realism, it was more for aesthetics purposes, and the reproduction of the shapes of valleys, mountains, etc... is purely empirical.
If I want to make something more "geologically accurate", I will switch to another project from scratch.
I already have some ideas for procedural map generation that I may put into practice one day.
[/quote]

Despite this the results so far are more than just agreeable. Heh, seeking geological veracity even in such sandbox-y game would require hundreds, or even thousands, hours of work. All these different rocks, arranged appropriately into layers, different patterns of erosion depending on their durability and so on. Yes, it would be tempting also to me because I believe that in spite of this apparently "childish" nature of this game the potential for creating realistic models within its voxel paradigm is huge and not yet realized in any known project. Anyway, if you ever find time to pursue such ambitious idea I hope this will be Minetest-compatible :)

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 07:15
by Gael de Sailly
voxelproof wrote:Heh, seeking geological veracity even in such sandbox-y game would require hundreds, or even thousands, hours of work. All these different rocks, arranged appropriately into layers, different patterns of erosion depending on their durability and so on. Yes, it would be tempting also to me because I believe that in spite of this apparently "childish" nature of this game the potential for creating realistic models within its voxel paradigm is huge and not yet realized in any known project. Anyway, if you ever find time to pursue such ambitious idea I hope this will be Minetest-compatible :)

I perfectly know that geology is waaaaay to complex to be modeled by a simple map generator like this. But certainly we can still do better than Valleys Mapgen's looping rivers and weird mountains.
I was actually speaking about geomorphology more than rocks themselves, I should have clarified. It's a good idea anyway. I don't expect to come to anything truly accurate, but doing my best in that purpose would already be a challenge.

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 16:45
by texmex
Speaking of geology, The Geological Survey of Sweden (SGU), the nations' agency officially "responsible for issuing permits for exploration and mining" has released a Minecraft mod, BetterGeo, with more realistic geological generation. They seem to have made decent research too, for instance:
The block hardness varies and the blocks are therefore mined with different difficulty. We have used Moh’s scale of mineral hardness as a reference for the relative hardness of our new blocks. The new smeltery also requires different amount of heat relative to the metal's melting point.


So a lot of work independent of game engine has to some extent already been done.

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 16:55
by Termos
Gael de Sailly wrote:
voxelproof wrote:I've looked quickly into his code, but he is using ABMs for that, which is not the approach I would prefer for this kind of stuff

I agree, abms are the worst place for this kind of thing, but at the same time probably the only one possible atm, at least in lua.
If on_construct worked with flowing liquid, I'd have used that instead.

About realistic terrain generation, one thing I'd want would be for it to be possible to get from any given surface node to sea level without ever going up.

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:20
by burli
Is this Mapgen incompatible with Minetest 5.1? I installed the latest version and Minetest crashed

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 16:34
by Gael de Sailly
burli wrote:Is this Mapgen incompatible with Minetest 5.1? I installed the latest version and Minetest crashed

I can't reproduce it, with latest version all works fine for me. Do you have any specific error message?
Also make sure you updated Minetest and MTG consistently.

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 16:38
by burli
No, I don't have specific messages. Minetest loads everything and instead of showing the map it crashes with a memory dump.

I use Ubuntu 18.04 with the daily PPA. I will try to compile Minetest from source. Maybe something is wrong with this.

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 18:03
by Gael de Sailly
Installed the lastest PPA on my Ubuntu 16.04 and got the segfault. I tried to comment some sensitive parts of my code but haven't found the cause, yet. Mystery...

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 23:06
by ShadMOrdre
burli,

Are you using LuaJIT, and if so, what other heavy mods are you loading, ie mg_villages, mesecons, advtrains?

I quit using LuaJIT because I ran into too many memory issues with the Lua mapgens in general, but valleys in particular. This affected older version of Lua valleys, and to some extent, even current ones. I have not used the most recent version of lua valleys here. But there may be some relation.

Shad

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 14:43
by mcbits
Thank you so much for making this, my personal favorite mapgen (in conjunction with ethereal et al). I wish more servers would use it!

However, there is one problem: It always makes me feel a little guilty when I start digging and building and generally destroying the landscape. I just have to remind myself that there's still plenty more pristine wilderness out there waiting to be discovered. :)

Re: [Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 18:07
by Kor
I'd like to use this on a server, together with Ethereal.

To enable my players build something other than mountain fortresses, I'd like to have a smooth plain here and there. How would I change the settings of the valleys mapgen to achieve this?

For clarification: I don't want to get rid of high mountains, deep rivers and such, so ironing out the landscape is not the way to go. I only don't want mountains to be everywhere.

Bonusquestion: Oceans seem to be rather shallow, right? There's no ocean deeper than about 50 nodes, right?

There is no documentation, what settings like "mgvalleys_np_terrain_height" do? I played around with them and got some results, but I hope I don't need to bhruteforce all those values into what I want to have :D