[Mod] Goblins [WIP][mobs_goblins]

echosa
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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by echosa » Sun Sep 04, 2016 21:44

I dug out the mossy cobblestone that was near the 3x3 water source I made in my underground lair/mine work area. A goblin still was able to spawn and grief the blocks around my water source. :-(
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by echosa » Sun Sep 04, 2016 22:52

So, I got into the lua code and lowered the max light level for all the goblin spawning, but even lowering it to 1, they still spawn in a lit area. I'm not sure why.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by duane » Mon Sep 05, 2016 23:43

echosa wrote:
duane wrote:You could also just dig out the mossycobble when you find it and they'll stop showing up.


They only show up on mossy cobble? I thought I saw somewhere that they show up on regular cobble as well. Also, by the time I got to the place, there was so much mossy cobble that they were spawning and making new mossy cobble faster than I could ever possibly mine it all to stop it.


No, no! They show up on other rock types as well. They just show up much more often on mossycobble. That's the only way I know of to concentrate them.

Personally, I like the challenge of cleaning out a lair. I make sure to mine out any traps for diamond, turn it into picks, and dig like mad until I've exterminated the little brutes. They're really not that tough once you get a decent weapon, and they drop food.

You can also tame them. I think tame animals still count into the spawned total, so the more tame ones you have, the fewer wild ones will spawn.

However, keep in mind that goblins was meant to be a destructive mod. FreeLikeGNU's idea to let mobs heavily modify their environment was, as far as I know, untried previously.
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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by echosa » Tue Sep 06, 2016 02:07

I don't mind a destructive mod. I just don't necessarily want an infinitely unstoppable destructive mod. These guys spread so far so quickly that there's no way I can keep up. I tried. They just keep spawning and spawning, and spreading to other areas.

Example: I made a little temporary shelter just below the surface, then a few levels down, dug out a 3x3 area to put water in (so I don't have to go outside or trek far to get water, since I'm using the thirsty mod). I start digging a 1 block wide stairwell down. I make it a fair way down, and start hearing strange sounds... the goblins at work, I would soon learn. I broke through the wall to a big open area where the little buggers were working away. I started slaughtering them and pulling up the blocks. They just kept spawning around me, so I'd kill them, dig, kill them dig. Very little progress was made. Negative progress, really, as the area of their coverage kept growing in spite of my best efforts. My thirst bar got low, so I ran upstairs to grab water. Too my surprise and dismay, I found a couple of goblins had spawned there, too, and were griefing my water source! I was very confused, since I'd lit everything up, and didn't yet realize that light level had no bearing at all on their spawning. I killed those two, fixed up my water source, then headed back down to the giant goblin cave. Half-way down, however, I found yet another new group of goblins taking out a new area in between my shelter and the giant cave. I killed them, lit the area, then headed down to the big cave which was, once again, swarming with goblins and just kept getting bigger and bigger with more and more traps and mossy cobblestone. No way I could keep up. I go through one side of the cave, kill them all, and before I can start taking down the cobblestone and traps, more have spawned on the other side of the cave. All the while, the cave just keeps getting bigger and bigger, making more room that I have to traverse in which the little guys just keep spawning... and so the cycle of negative progress continues.

Is that the intended play of the mod? If so, I see two ways to play:

1.) Spend all my time trying to keep these guys under control, a lost cause I think, or
2.) Let them do their thing, infinitely spread and keep griefing, and just never build anything underground ever.

I, personally, would prefer to be able to find an area where they're spawning, kill them all, then somehow (light level or some other thing) keep them from being able to spawn anymore, thus claiming that area for myself, conquered. Maybe even leave a sign as a memorial of the Great Goblin Slaughter. However, since they seem to spawn literally anywhere underground at anytime, that doesn't seem likely. Perhaps this mod just isn't meant for me. I like the idea, but I've found the actual gameplay a bit outside of my preference zone, so far anyway.

Note: THIS MOD IS AMAZING. Let nothing I say lead anyone to believe otherwise. The goblins feel so real, so alive. The experience is incredible, it's a really cool idea, and it's even more awesome that someone was able to implement their idea so fully and so well done. It just doesn't fit into my current personal play style, or the personal subgame I've been putting together.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by ExeterDad » Tue Sep 06, 2016 02:53

They made a massive cavern under a town we had built. Of course we didn't want to lose our work so we went to battle. We couldn't win either. Those little fella's just kept spawning as fast as we could kill them. The only way we could stop them is place TONS of dirt. We found if you left no stone without a dirt on it, they wouldn't spawn. We saved the town, but we sure earned it.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by echosa » Tue Sep 06, 2016 03:05

ExeterDad wrote:We found if you left no stone without a dirt on it, they wouldn't spawn.


When you say "on it", do you mean placing a block of dirt on the top of the stone blocks? I didn't get the impression that this would stop them, as everything I've read seemed to imply they would spawn near valid blocks, not necessarily on them. Same goes for the mossy stone and ores/traps they place.

Am I wrong in that understanding? If placing dirt on top of the blocks works, then perhaps things might be salvageable. You're right, though. I'm going to need a lot of dirt.

That'll still only stop them in that exact area, of course. Go a couple blocks in any direction from any point, and they're likely to just start spawning there instead, it seems. Again, unless I don't correctly understand the spawn rules, which is very possible, even likely.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by duane » Tue Sep 06, 2016 09:33

echosa wrote:Perhaps this mod just isn't meant for me. I like the idea, but I've found the actual gameplay a bit outside of my preference zone, so far anyway.


You might also try something like the variant I did for Squaresville (which is based on the variant in Fun Caves). Both are dependent on the rest of their mods, but they might give you some ideas. It's been a while since I've played the original.
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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by ExeterDad » Tue Sep 06, 2016 09:56

@echosa, yeah... all it took was dirt. It was hard. We had to systematically lay dirt in one area at a time ignoring trolls in other areas of the cavern and focus on completeness. Since they often have one block high tunnels leading to other caverns, it was easy to overlook areas.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by AccidentallyRhine » Tue Sep 06, 2016 13:06

echosa wrote:I don't mind a destructive mod. I just don't necessarily want an infinitely unstoppable destructive mod. These guys spread so far so quickly that there's no way I can keep up. I tried. They just keep spawning and spawning, and spreading to other areas.


I've disabled the digger goblin's digging ability to make it more friendly to my server. In any area that generally always has people on, the goblins will clear out huge caverns and it wouldn't be a problem if they would just stop after so much has been removed.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by echosa » Tue Sep 06, 2016 15:12

AnxiousInfusion wrote:it wouldn't be a problem if they would just stop after so much has been removed.


Or if there was an alternative way to of stopping them (aside from covering the place with dirt).

I'm considering turning off the goblins that spawn on cobble stone and turning off the ability to make mossy cobblestone. I'm thinking maybe those two things would slow down the griefing enough to make it bearable/playable (to me), still allow enough goblins to spawn to keep it interesting, and make it easier to handle by only having to remove ores, traps, and much less mossy cobble.

If I get around to trying that, I'll report back. No idea if/when I'll get around to it though.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by twoelk » Tue Sep 06, 2016 21:01

maybe goblins could be tweaked to avoid mese lamps or even respect protection mods ;-P
or maybe if you stick a goblin head on a pole ...
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by duane » Tue Sep 06, 2016 22:41

echosa wrote:
AnxiousInfusion wrote:it wouldn't be a problem if they would just stop after so much has been removed.


Or if there was an alternative way to of stopping them (aside from covering the place with dirt).


Here's another idea. Turn off their natural spawning altogether, on everything. Then make a goblin spawner (mobs_redo/spawner.lua) show up as an ore type (or place them manually), and shorten each goblin's lifetime to sixty seconds or so. That way, a bunch will show up in the same area. They won't have time to go very far from the spawner. Once you dig up the spawner, they'll stop appearing. Make the spawner look like a goblin throne.

With a bit more code, you could have the spawner produce regular groups with a king, a few ore types, and lots of grunts; one group every minute.
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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by duane » Wed Sep 07, 2016 19:41

duane wrote:Here's another idea. Turn off their natural spawning altogether, on everything. Then make a goblin spawner (mobs_redo/spawner.lua) show up as an ore type (or place them manually), and shorten each goblin's lifetime to sixty seconds or so.


It sounded interesting enough that I tried it myself. Here's a goblin cave that started out as a completely bare cavern, with nothing but default stone, into which I placed a single spawner.

Image

Image

This is about a hundred meters away, where their influence tapers off dramatically.

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by echosa » Thu Sep 08, 2016 03:22

Hm. That's not a bad idea, actually. I like that you can stop the spawning by getting the throne. Duane, did you manually place the spawner, just to see how it would work, or did you actually code up the whole random generation in the world bit? I'd be interested in that code.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by duane » Thu Sep 08, 2016 17:07

echosa wrote:Hm. That's not a bad idea, actually. I like that you can stop the spawning by getting the throne. Duane, did you manually place the spawner, just to see how it would work, or did you actually code up the whole random generation in the world bit? I'd be interested in that code.


For the screenshots, I placed a throne in an artificially empty cave. I've already added code to place them in squaresville, but that's a single-node mapgen, so it's not directly applicable to others. The easiest way to do it is with an lbm based on default stone or such. Just check for air over the node and give it a low probability (unless you want them everywhere). This has the advantage of affecting already generated worlds as well.
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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by Damned » Sun Sep 25, 2016 04:57

Just started playing Minetest this week, and was looking for some mods to add when this one caught my eye. After reading the thread, I realised, from a mythological point, what you've created are Kolbolds. German mythology, diggers in mines setting traps for miners. I know they're all fairy folk and are usually clumped together under a single name and have similar appearence, but there are differences. Typical Goblins are not industrious, they wouldn't really dig tunnels, especially through rock. They're thieves and vandals, they'd just take the available resources and horde them. If they make it to the surface, then they'd raid for treasure, so attacking buildings.
To make them more goblin like, I'd stop the digger tunnelling through the stone resource, only the ore and gravel as that contains flint. Sorry, only had a quick look at the code so not sure if it's doable. If there is a difference between the resource stone and the building material. Add things like doors, glass, chests, wood, don't know if you can use a generic term rather than specific, like I wrote, only been playing a few days. It would avoid the risk of the horde undermining a village. I like the idea of the Goblin kings throne especially as the location of the horde. It would save having to go through the cavern looking for resources if they'd already been collected.
Couple of thing I've noticed.
Some diggers spawned at the surface or at sea level, or -1 that, I thought they were supposed to be deeper?. Also they spawned in a pool of water and operated under water, but didn't seem to be suffering any drowning effects.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by duane » Mon Sep 26, 2016 03:16

Damned wrote:Typical Goblins are not industrious, they wouldn't really dig tunnels, especially through rock. They're thieves and vandals, they'd just take the available resources and horde them. If they make it to the surface, then they'd raid for treasure, so attacking buildings.
To make them more goblin like, I'd stop the digger tunnelling through the stone resource, only the ore and gravel as that contains flint. Sorry, only had a quick look at the code so not sure if it's doable. If there is a difference between the resource stone and the building material. Add things like doors, glass, chests, wood, don't know if you can use a generic term rather than specific, like I wrote, only been playing a few days. It would avoid the risk of the horde undermining a village. I like the idea of the Goblin kings throne especially as the location of the horde. It would save having to go through the cavern looking for resources if they'd already been collected.


People already get upset when they dig through constructions. They'd really hate it if goblins specifically stole their chests. Heh.
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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by Damned » Tue Sep 27, 2016 14:35

Sorry, I know it's bad that someone new seem to be trying to pick faults, but the more I play this, I get the impression that nobody fact checks. Like the farming mod. You don't get flour from straw, you get it from wheat seeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold#Mine_spirits

I think you'll find it sounds like what you've created.

I've tried it on a new single player map, but it was just unplayable for me. If they spawned a lot deeper so you only encounter them when deep mining, then it wouldn't be so bad.

Still on the plus side I may have given you an idea for another race. Then you could call what you have Kobolds, then create a race of thieving, vandal Goblins that are more surface based.
 

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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by duane » Wed Sep 28, 2016 00:36

Damned wrote:Sorry, I know it's bad that someone new seem to be trying to pick faults, but the more I play this, I get the impression that nobody fact checks. Like the farming mod. You don't get flour from straw, you get it from wheat seeds.


Yes, but you have to remember that this is a game where you can carry around tons of stone in your pockets. /grin
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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by azekill_DIABLO » Thu Sep 29, 2016 15:42

duane wrote:
Damned wrote:Sorry, I know it's bad that someone new seem to be trying to pick faults, but the more I play this, I get the impression that nobody fact checks. Like the farming mod. You don't get flour from straw, you get it from wheat seeds.


Yes, but you have to remember that this is a game where you can carry around tons of stone in your pockets. /grin


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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by Sokomine » Mon Nov 28, 2016 21:12

Damned wrote:Sorry, I know it's bad that someone new seem to be trying to pick faults, but the more I play this, I get the impression that nobody fact checks. Like the farming mod. You don't get flour from straw, you get it from wheat seeds.

My cottages mod comes with a threshing floor and a handmill.

As far as goblins go - I'm afraid mythology might vary from country to country, even from region to region. It might be tricky to agree on anything there.

The gobils are a lot of fun. They ought to respect protected areas (as all mobs ought to). Their...overenthusiasm...at spawning and turning all into mossy cobble might be restricted a bit if they've got a limited supply of mossy cobble and have to refill from time to time by going back to the center of their...er...cave.
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Re: [WIP] Goblins [mobs_goblins]

by fergoy » Sat Sep 02, 2017 15:59

This is an excellent mod, I think some improvement need to be done, but I just get impressed with all the things I saw happening. I have a way down to mines where I found large caves with water by the way and further more I just made stone stairs to lead me to my way back. When I activated this mod and got my way down there was changes and goblins everywhere messing it up. Very funny and scary.

It caused me a lot of trouble because they are too many and mess up my stairs and torches and I had to turn the mod off to be able to get back up.

I think, as others already said, that It could be managed to the goblins not flood all the mines spaces and turn any adventure difficult as hell when you just need to find a diamond. It could be like cities where they stay and, if you don't mess with them you can just turn around and look for another place to dig.

I'd like to comment that just for the minute the mod was active, many diamonds blocks appeared where wasn't before. I found that interesting cause as difficult this mod turns the digging process, it can helps you to find more rare blocks.

It's great, thank you for this mod.
 

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