[Mod] MicroExpansion [0.2] [microexpansion]

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[Mod] MicroExpansion [0.2] [microexpansion]

by octacian » Sun Nov 27, 2016 16:28

Image

MicroExpansion - ME [microexpansion]

Version: 0.2, unstable
License: Code: MIT (see LICENSE), Media: CC-BY-SA 3.0
Github Repository

Downloads:

Note: MicroExpansion requires that you have minetest-dev with this commit or later.

When you really get into a survival world, you typically end up with a lot of items, like a ton of items. Sometimes literally. But with that huge amount of resources, comes something annoying and typically unwanted: chests. Well, of course. You have to have chests to store items, but no biggie, it's just chests. Then your storage room starts to grow, soon you have 25 chests, then 50, then 100. Management gets kinda hard. MicroExpansion, is the solution.

Originally inspired by Applied Energistics 2 for Minecraft, MicroExpansion introduces many new nodes and items giving the player simpler and more compact ways to store thousands of items inside of a single ME drive.

Note: not all the features mentioned above are complete, so see the list directly below for planned and complete features.

To Do List
  • ME Chests. Done.
  • ME Networks
  • Remote Access to ME Networks
  • Spatial Storage Drives
  • ...and more.

Discussion / Issues

Discussion about MicroExpansion should take place here, on the forum post, or on enDEV IRC (irc.endev.xyz, port 6697, SSL, accept invalid certs), channel #minetest. Features requests should be made on the forum or through a GitHub issue. Bugs can best be reported by creating an issue on GitHub.
Last edited by octacian on Fri Feb 24, 2017 20:41, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Nathan.S » Mon Nov 28, 2016 02:59

This sounds like it could be really interesting. I will be watching the development of this mod.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by DS-minetest » Mon Nov 28, 2016 14:43

ill watch it, too
you should change the textures to not copied later
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by octacian » Mon Nov 28, 2016 16:29

DS-minetest wrote:you should change the textures to not copied later


ATM I don't have time to make my own textures for it. Since it is heavily inspired by AE2, and AE2 is open source, I have decided to just use their textures and models.

However, when I get the time to make my own, I will do that. If somebody is interested in contributing textures, I'd be happy to consider using them as a replacement. Note that I will not use textures or code licensed under WTFPL or the likes, and would prefer CC-BY-SA 2.0 or the likes.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Wuzzy » Mon Nov 28, 2016 22:17

Since it is heavily inspired by AE2, and AE2 is open source, I have decided to just use their textures and models.

AE2 is not open source (nor free software, obviously), otherwise there would be no CC BY-NC-SA 3.0. Please consider using other textures or convince the original author to drop the NC or give you permission to relicense it under a free software / open source license (good luck!)
In the Minetest community, we value our freedom. Thanks for your time. :-)

Note that I will not use textures or code licensed under WTFPL

Ummm … why? From your perspective, WTFPL is pretty much the best-case scenario. WTFPL literally means you can stop worrying and do what the fuck you want … which includes choosing another license afterwards if you are against WTPFL for some reason.


Oh, and do you have anything to say about the actual blocks you want to include? I mean, can you give an example or two?
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by octacian » Tue Nov 29, 2016 01:26

Wuzzy wrote:AE2 is not open source (nor free software, obviously), otherwise there would be no CC BY-NC-SA 3.0. Please consider using other textures or convince the original author to drop the NC or give you permission to relicense it under a free software / open source license (good luck!)
In the Minetest community, we value our freedom. Thanks for your time. :-)


Thanks for letting me know, I didn't know any of that. Specifically that something is not technically open source if it restricts use in any way, including commercial. Well, now I know. However, that does not restrict me from using it in this mod, does it? Either way, I agree that I should either get permission of author to use SA rather than NC or use other textures. I don't blame you guys for valuing your freedom, I do too :D

Contacting the author today.

Wuzzy wrote:Ummm … why? From your perspective, WTFPL is pretty much the best-case scenario. WTFPL literally means you can stop worrying and do what the fuck you want … which includes choosing another license afterwards if you are against WTPFL for some reason.


Well, the above is what I don't like about it. The f**k. In fact, it's a reason why I haven't forked several mods, as I refuse to use the license for it's language, aside from the fact that my parents would be VERY against it. Aside from that, the WTFPL does not fully cover all issues, the main one missed being warranty. Meaning, that I am not fully free from worry. For example, if my mod destroyed someone's OS, I would be legally at fault (yeah, IK, I'd still really be at fault anyways, but you get the idea - I hope).

Wuzzy wrote:Oh, and do you have anything to say about the actual blocks you want to include? I mean, can you give an example or two?


I guess that's a good question. Will update main post soon. Some planned nodes: ME Chest, Drive, Terminal, Controller, Interface, I/O Port, and Incriber (a machine for creating processors).

Honestly, if you've ever looked at the AE2 website, you'll see this is near identical to it. It isn't because I'm trying to copy them, simply because they have good ideas. Some recipes in my MT version are different, as are several other things.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Wuzzy » Tue Nov 29, 2016 02:36

I have just clicked through the AE2 homepage. It sure looks complex and you want to clone all that? That would be quite impressive! :-) I am looking forward to see something useful coming out of this. :-)
But I think the initial description in the first post should be worded for non-Minecrafters (like me), at least on release. I don't like it when game descriptions assume perfect knowledge about a different game, I hope this is understandable. ;-)


Wuzzy wrote:Ummm … why? From your perspective, WTFPL is pretty much the best-case scenario. WTFPL literally means you can stop worrying and do what the fuck you want … which includes choosing another license afterwards if you are against WTPFL for some reason.


Well, the above is what I don't like about it. The f**k. In fact, it's a reason why I haven't forked several mods, as I refuse to use the license for it's language, aside from the fact that my parents would be VERY against it. Aside from that, the WTFPL does not fully cover all issues, the main one missed being warranty. Meaning, that I am not fully free from worry. For example, if my mod destroyed someone's OS, I would be legally at fault (yeah, IK, I'd still really be at fault anyways, but you get the idea - I hope).

Well, then you and/or your parents are just delusional then. Apart from there being nothing wrong with the word “fuck” (I won't start a discussion about that again), you just shoot yourself in the foot by doing this because you're missing out on many quality mods for a very, very stupid reason. You don't even send a message. Do you really expect other people to change their license only because you dislike the wording? Get real. Please do yourselves a favor and judge mods by their content, and not by whether or not the word “fuck” appears in the license name. ;-) There are far better reasons to reject a software.
And apparently you still didn't understand that WTFPL also means you can change the licence and conditions to your liking if you republish the work, thereby getting rid of the “evil” WTFPL. You can also add any disclaimer or warranty or whatever else you find lacking. The fact that the original author used WTFPL and did not include a disclaimer is therefore the author's problem and only the author's problem, not yours.
In brief: If you feel that ANYTHING is wrong with a WTFPL (or similar) mod (including legalities), fork it and fix it yourselves, nobody is going to stop you (that's the point!). :-)
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by octacian » Wed Nov 30, 2016 02:39

Wuzzy wrote:I have just clicked through the AE2 homepage. It sure looks complex and you want to clone all that? That would be quite impressive! :-) I am looking forward to see something useful coming out of this. :-)
But I think the initial description in the first post should be worded for non-Minecrafters (like me), at least on release. I don't like it when game descriptions assume perfect knowledge about a different game, I hope this is understandable. ;-)


Yes, I guess "clone" is pretty appropriate. I plan on essentially recreating almost everything there, with some exceptions and a number of different recipes. That is true, I don't explain some of the planned things in-depth, which could be confusing for those who have never seen AE2, especially people (like me) who do not play Minecraft. When I get some time I'll add more information, though it won't be right away as I'm currently dealing with HDD failure on my server. As soon as it's dealt with, and some of my other obligations are met, I'll get that done.


The main reason that I do not use the WTFPL, is because to me, it says something about me that I use it. In real life, I do not swear therefore I see no reason to license my own works under a license with inappropriate language. I'm not trying to say that anybody using the WTFPL is not a good person, this is just my personal opinion for my own use. I know that some of you may not understand my reasoning, but I am firm on what I've said above, and will not change. Aside from that, the WTFPL is by no means appropriate for younger kids, teens, or anybody.

Anyways, that's just my humble opinion and stand. And FYI, I fall into the "teens" group, and this is my personal opinion, not directly my parent's (though they would feel much the same about such an issue).

Wuzzy wrote:And apparently you still didn't understand that WTFPL also means you can change the licence and conditions to your liking if you republish the work, thereby getting rid of the “evil” WTFPL.


Wait, so, I could take a mod licensed under the WTFPL, for example the textures of BlockMen's Better HUD mod, and use DWYWPL instead, without contacting BlockMen? Maybe I still don't get it, so that's why I'm asking.

With all this in mind, code in MicroExpansion will remain licensed under the MIT license, and textures under CC-BY-SA 2.0, DWYWPL or the likes (this affects textures contributed by other users).

Overall, I want to keep my mod (in fact, all of my mods) child and language appropriate. Thanks for understanding.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Wuzzy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 03:49

Wait, so, I could take a mod licensed under the WTFPL, for example the textures of BlockMen's Better HUD mod, and use DWYWPL instead, without contacting BlockMen? Maybe I still don't get it, so that's why I'm asking.

Yes.

(But of course only for the stuff which actually is under WTFPL.)
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by DS-minetest » Wed Nov 30, 2016 14:06

Wuzzy wrote:(But of course only for the stuff which actually is under WTFPL.)

or the stuff which is under CC0 Nathan corrected me
and wow, we got another person writing as much as Wuzzy does O_O
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Nathan.S » Wed Nov 30, 2016 16:38

DS-Minetest, CC0 doesn't let you relicense and you can't claim it as your own. You can use it for whatever you want, and don't need to credit the original author in any form, though it's nice to throw a little bit in that it is from them, but no required.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by DS-minetest » Wed Nov 30, 2016 18:57

oh, nice to know
this should tell the truth:
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Wuzzy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 22:06

Nathan S.: What is your source for your claim that CC0 stuff is NOT relicensable? CC0 is similar to WTFPL, it also imposes no restrictions. I can't find anything in the CC0 text that says you may not choose a different license later. There is no “share-alike” clause.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Nathan.S » Thu Dec 01, 2016 01:01

CC0 is public domain, I can't take something that has fallen into public domain, say a book after 100 years of copyright and copyright it. I didn't write it.
Mind you that is US law, could be different elsewhere.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by pithy » Thu Dec 01, 2016 04:03

I've been relicensing my mods to CC0 because some Germans told me that public domain is not a thing in Germany.

Do I need to relicense my mods again?
 

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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Nathan.S » Thu Dec 01, 2016 14:08

To my knowledge CC0 is universal, Public Domain is not. Blame it on the messed up copyright system in the USA.
CC0 and Public domain are similar in their protections, or lack thereof, but Public Domain is only valid in the US, as far as I know.

Wuzzy: While the Legal text and plain text version of the CC0 documentation don't say that you can't they don't say you can either, so I'd assume that it isn't relicense able.
Code: Select all
 You can copy, modify, distribute and perform the work, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission.

and
Code: Select all
 Certain owners wish to permanently relinquish those rights to a Work for the purpose of contributing to a commons of creative, cultural and scientific works ("Commons") that the public can reliably and without fear of later claims of infringement build upon, modify, incorporate in other works, reuse and redistribute as freely as possible in any form whatsoever and for any purposes, including without limitation commercial purposes. These owners may contribute to the Commons to promote the ideal of a free culture and the further production of creative, cultural and scientific works, or to gain reputation or greater distribution for their Work in part through the use and efforts of others.


As an example, say I created some CC0 work and shared it. Some random person on the internet comes along and takes a copy copyrights it, then what happens? I gave it away free, but now this other person owns a copyright on it. It would defeat the entire purpose of CC0, not to mention it would be a legal nightmare.

However I'm not a lawyer, so please take anything I say with a grain of salt. Also this doesn't constitute as legal advice. :)
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by Joseph13 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 23:59

The mod is unstable correct? If i have it it my survival world is there a large chance of it corrupting my world?
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by octacian » Fri Dec 09, 2016 03:00

Joseph13 wrote:The mod is unstable correct? If i have it it my survival world is there a large chance of it corrupting my world?


There is no chance of it corrupting your world. In fact, the mod isn't actually functional yet. This requires major work and lots of time, but it will be happening soon. In the current version, there's only 8 items none of which are functional. However, as I said, that will change.

I will be taking part in a modding competition from the evening of the 17th until the 19th. In those 2 1/4 days, I expect to have working ME systems and maybe even more. So, hopefully you can stand waiting that long :D

Keep in mind though, the mod is currently pointless as nothing is function. Yet...
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by octacian » Sun Jan 01, 2017 20:53

Here's a quick update on MicroExpansion.

I've decided to entirely restart development. Instead of almost trying to copy AE2, I'm taking the basic idea of AE but keeping it simpler and making all media myself as I go. To start, I'm working on a single basic drive and a chest that allows you to access the items in the drive. It's a bit slow as though I consider myself to be reasonably good with formspecs, I've never messed with inventories before.

The basic idea is that the drive is inserted into the chest, and the item list is serialized and stored in drive meta whenever the inventory is changed. The chest will allow you to search items as there will be multiple pages, as with the creative inventory.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by echosa » Sun Jan 01, 2017 21:11

I'm very excited to see this mod get developed! In order to make things easier/faster (both in terms of development and player usage in game), might I suggest using EZStorage as a guide instead of AE2? EZStorage is pretty awesome, having gotten some experience with it lately playing the Nameless modpack in MC.

https://minecraft.curseforge.com/projects/ezstorage

Basically, the system requires no power and is modular. A "core" is the base of the system. You place connected storage blocks to increase storage, and the storage blocks can be upgrade to hold more items each. You place a touching search block to get search capability. You place a touching a crafting box to allow crafting from the system. Etc. It's pretty easy to get a basic storage system up and running early game. (Easy materials.)

Just a thought. Feel free to ignore me. I'm super excited to have a storage system in Minetest!
 

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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by octacian » Wed Feb 01, 2017 15:22

Well, it's been a while. I've been working on another mod of mine for a long time, digicompute. For this reason, I haven't been able to get back to this yet. However, I will be in the near future.

I will soon be working on a commit that will add a basic 4k ME drive and a chest to access it. From there, things will start to go much faster.

Anyways, to those of you who are interested in this, yes, it's coming soon. (though likely not for another week)
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by yawin » Sat Feb 04, 2017 14:39

Of all the mods that I hope, this is the one that I hope with more desire. So much to learn from the code, as to add it to my game.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by echosa » Mon Feb 06, 2017 22:29

Awesome! Thanks for the update! Definitely looking forward to this. :-D
 

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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by octacian » Thu Feb 09, 2017 15:46

Well, I said it was coming, so here it is.

I've restarted the development process making my own textures along the way. At the time of writing, there is a 4k ME cell and an ME chest (thanks, Amaz!) available. Using the ME chest, you can interact with items in the storage cell. At the moment there are no recipes with which to make these items as that would require extra items and I am currently working to add several more storage tiers.

Now, for those of you who would like to try this out, see the OP. However, please note that ME currently requires that you have minetest-dev with this commit or a later one.
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Re: [Mod] MicroExpansion [0.1] [microexpansion]

by yawin » Thu Feb 09, 2017 17:16

First crash:
Code: Select all
2017-02-09 18:13:21: WARNING[Server]: Undeclared global variable "inventory_plus" accessed at ...t/games/redblockers/mods/3d_armor/3d_armor/armor.lua:401
2017-02-09 18:13:28: WARNING[Server]: Undeclared global variable "inventory_plus" accessed at ...t/games/redblockers/mods/3d_armor/3d_armor/armor.lua:292
2017-02-09 18:13:40: ACTION[Server]: singleplayer places node microexpansion:chest at (-3,2,592)
2017-02-09 18:13:40: ACTION[Server]: facedir: 1
2017-02-09 18:13:44: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'microexpansion' in callback nodemeta_inventory_OnPut(): ...t/games/redblockers/mods/microexpansion/machines.lua:89: attempt to call method 'get_meta' (a nil value)
2017-02-09 18:13:44: ERROR[Main]: stack traceback:
2017-02-09 18:13:44: ERROR[Main]:    ...t/games/redblockers/mods/microexpansion/machines.lua:89: in function <...t/games/redblockers/mods/microexpansion/machines.lua:81>


What I was doing:
I rightclicked in the place to put an 4K Storage Cell with a full stack of memory cell.

Edit: The crash is when I put a memory cell in the place for memory cell in the chest.
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