[Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

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Extex
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[Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by Extex » Post

My second mod!!
Image

Gives every player a realistic name

This is purely decorative atm
Example of generated names:

- Jayce Carpenter
- Samantha Collins
- Lincoln Harmon

If you discover any bugs please let me know

Dependencies: none

Browse code: https://github.com/Extex101/real_names/tree/master
Download: https://github.com/Extex101/real_names/ ... master.zip
License: Code: (MIT: Extex), ChatCommandBuilder (MIT: Rubenwardy)


New updated version by Axcore (suggested):
https://github.com/axcore/real_names_redo
Last edited by Extex on Fri Jan 01, 2021 00:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by Extex » Post

I would really appreciate a review.

I would really like to know what you think.
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by texmex » Post

From the top of my head:
  • There’s something outdated with the binary choice between boy and girl. It doesn’t necessarily reflect the setting of the server’s world build (who knows what genders exist therein). But if only sticking to the context of stock MTG, only one gender exists (the one people call Sam). Maybe just remove the choice altogether and offer to reroll name if desired?
  • The name list seem to feature ordinary US names. The community is international, so bring in names from around the world accordingly. The names have no theme to them but perhaps that’s intentional in order to fit most world build themes. But regardless of fantasy or scifi or else, who would want to name their hero “Samantha Collins”?
  • What happens on death? Should the player be offered to create a new persona?
  • Should the player tag be modified to (also?) display the “persona” name? Does it already perhaps?
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by MHL » Post

texmex wrote:From the top of my head:
[*] The name list seem to feature ordinary US names. The community is international, so bring in names from around the world accordingly.
This would be tricky in some languages.
As far as I know in Ukrainian, Russian, Czechorepublican, Slovakian and a few more languages there a female endings - *ova. Example:
A man named Linyos Torovoltos has a wife named Dmitriva TorovoltosOVA.

In Polish it's even more complicated:
The wife's name could be either: *owa, *ana and *ina
The (unmarried) daughter's name would be *anka or *ówna
And the endings depend (mainly) on whether the last name ends with a a, e, o, i, y, or not.
Example:
A men named Amigo Ponczo has a wife named Amiga Ponczana and a daughter named Amigusia Ponczanka.

Another example:
A men named Juliusz Jamnik has a wife named Janina Jamnikowa and a daughter named Jadwiga Jamnikówna.

This could be solved but it would require a much more complex code and I think other languages have other rules.
Last edited by MHL on Fri Dec 18, 2020 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by Extex » Post

texmex wrote:
  • There’s something outdated with the binary choice between boy and girl. It doesn’t necessarily reflect the setting of the server’s world build (who knows what genders exist therein). But if only sticking to the context of stock MTG, only one gender exists (the one people call Sam). Maybe just remove the choice altogether and offer to reroll name if desired?
Maybe a "Re-roll firstname" and "Re-roll lastname"

Actually I like that better than current option
[*] The name list seem to feature ordinary US names. The community is international, so bring in names from around the world accordingly. The names have no theme to them but perhaps that’s intentional in order to fit most world build themes. But regardless of fantasy or scifi or else, who would want to name their hero “Samantha Collins”?
Maybe have it as a setting. "Use fantasy and sci-fi names"
[*] What happens on death? Should the player be offered to create a new persona?
No I don't. But I could have it as an option
[*] Should the player tag be modified to (also?) display the “persona” name? Does it already perhaps?
Maybe have their nametag change to
"<player> <realistic name>"[/list]
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by Hamlet » Post

Perhaps you could allow to choose the generated names' 'style', that is: 'English', 'Spanish', 'Fantasy' etc.

That could be implemented with an "if (style == 'English') then" use only the names table provided for that style.

So if there are any corrections to be made (depending on the country's customs), they will affect only that style.

Some countries use masculine names as feminine: Andrea ("Andrew"), Luca ("Luke"), Anna ("Annas/Ananias") and Ariel are some examples; and some countries use two surnames: <Name> <Father's surname> <Mother's surname>, "Pedro Alvarez Gutierrez".

Given that each country has its own customs about names and surnames, splitting the code would allow easier editing/maintenance depending on the actual need: if no people from some country is using the mod, it does not make sense to code that country's names' rules - anyway you can always add them later.
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by Linuxdirk » Post

Hamlet wrote:Some countries use masculine names as feminine: Andrea ("Andrew"), Luca ("Luke"), Anna ("Annas/Ananias") and Ariel are some examples; and some countries use two surnames: <Name> <Father's surname> <Mother's surname>, "Pedro Alvarez Gutierrez".
.. .and don't even start with the Islandic naming scheme where surnames are inherited from either father or mother and change depending on the kid being born male or female.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by PolySaken » Post

Additionally:
- some culture have no last names
- some cultures place their family name before their given name
- no middle names?
A possible solution is to choose a random number of names, with a bias towards less.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by Chem871 » Post

Maybe just go with totally outlandish names, so you don't have to stick to any established naming schemes.
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by Festus1965 » Post

texmex wrote:This would be tricky in some languages.
exact on the point ... IF that mod must supply ALL languages ... hihi
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by Linuxdirk » Post

Chem871 wrote:Maybe just go with totally outlandish names, so you don't have to stick to any established naming schemes.
So you mean, like, people can decide on their own how they want to be named on the server? Crazy! :D

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by AlexYst » Post

Is there any chance you might add an enby option, for those of us that are neither boy nor girl? There's actually a wide variety of unisex names available, such as the ones found here: <https://wehavekids.com/baby-names/gender-neutral-names>.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by MeseCraft » Post

texmex wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 23:14
There’s something outdated with the binary choice between boy and girl. It doesn’t necessarily reflect the setting of the server’s world build (who knows what genders exist therein). But if only sticking to the context of stock MTG, only one gender exists (the one people call Sam). Maybe just remove the choice altogether and offer to reroll name if desired?
I wouldn't say its outdated. In most cultures, it's still a biological binary. In western society, this idea is really only pushed by a vocal minority that cites the works of John Money and his gender reassignment theory. I don't want to get into this, but he has some pretty questionable works and studies, they aren't really discussed. For example, the studies that he did with the Reimer brothers and that leading to their eventual suicides! I would really urge doing due diligence around the background of this before normalizing that.

That said, I do understand that introducing gender/sex into the game may not be appropriate in all games. For example, in the game I'm working on all players have the same skin/appearance and its non-human, it works pretty well and fits in with other game mechanics, such as absorbing water, which implies a function of an amphibian. Players spawn in as frogs. So I actually agree with your point that Boy/Girl isn't realistic for all games!

Extex, you're going to get a lot of requests and comments about this mod. Perhaps, I would suggest focusing on the mod as being more of a moddable framework that users can adjust to their own preferences and cultures, because we come from a lot of different backgrounds, maybe that is the best approach. I don't think it would be reasonable to have you program the mod with realistic names from every walk of life.
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by AlexYst » Post

MeseCraft wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 19:04
texmex wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 23:14
There’s something outdated with the binary choice between boy and girl. It doesn’t necessarily reflect the setting of the server’s world build (who knows what genders exist therein). But if only sticking to the context of stock MTG, only one gender exists (the one people call Sam). Maybe just remove the choice altogether and offer to reroll name if desired?
I wouldn't say its outdated. In most cultures, it's still a biological binary. In western society, this idea is really only pushed by a vocal minority that cites the works of John Money and his gender reassignment theory. I don't want to get into this, but he has some pretty questionable works and studies, they aren't really discussed. For example, the studies that he did with the Reimer brothers and that leading to their eventual suicides! I would really urge doing due diligence around the background of this before normalizing that.
It's not a minority that cite this, nor can gender really be reassigned. There's a difference between sex and gender though, and this difference is *widely* accepted by the medical community. Sex refers to one's genitals, while gender describes who one is on the inside. People outside the medical community sometimes deny this difference, but people outside the know of any particular field can often be wrong about things they haven't studied extensively. There have even been brain scans that show this separation between sex and gender. For example, a transman is a man and his brain looks much more like a typical cisman's brain, even though said transman is female and has a vagina. Meanwhile, us enbies have more of a mixed brain. The sex binary is even invalid given the existence of intersex people (people with mixed genitals), but the gender binary (names, pronouns, behaviors, et cetera) is long outdated as well and doesn't match modern medical knowledge or societal behaviours. We even have legal recognition in many regions.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by MeseCraft » Post

I disagree. But I'm not going to debate this topic here any further. I simply wanted to suggest that the author consider making this a flexible program.
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by MisterE » Post

I think that the point of the suggestion is to make Minetest not have gender in-game, thus eliminating any problems associated with different players having different supposed genders in-game. I think that that is a great idea for family-friendly servers that want to discourage inappropriate behavior between players. Another benefit is that players can keep the personal information of their gender private (which should be of no consequence in-game anyways).

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by MHL » Post

AlexYst wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 19:40
Sex refers to one's genitals, while gender describes who one is on the inside.
I have checked multiple dictionaries and they all say that sex is a synonym of gender...
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Back on topic..

by Blockhead » Post

Remember this is a mod about names. Names exist as a bunch of subsets of all the possible names. Some are considered male names, some are considered female names, and others aren't considered gendered/are considered neuter. Some languages have conventions that relate to to the masculinity or femininity of names, but in the end all you need to implement is an algorithm that will select names for the player they find appropriate. Let players tick both male and female names.

It's probably appropriate if the mod wants to serve an international audience too to give them even more options based on nationality etc., possibly a hierarchy of tickboxes type deal. e.g. 'All names -> English names -> Male names' would be one subset.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [real_names] [1.0.3]

by AlexYst » Post

MHL wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 16:30
AlexYst wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 19:40
Sex refers to one's genitals, while gender describes who one is on the inside.
I have checked multiple dictionaries and they all say that sex is a synonym of gender...
It might help to check a more medically-oriented resource, rather than a dictionary. Dictionaries report on common usage of words, so when words get misused, their misuse gets put into dictionaries as well. For example, one "definition" of the word "literally" that you'll find in a dictionary these days is "figuratively", which is actually the exact opposite of what "literally" means. People misuse the word that way though, so into the dictionary it goes.

Here's a page that can breifly explain the differences between sex and gender: <https://www.healthline.com/health/sex-vs-gender>

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by Linuxdirk » Post

... and this discussion is the reason why you don't decide on things for users.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by ShadMOrdre » Post

RANT:

Quite frankly, @AlexYst, this is NOT about your disagreements about gender or sex. This forum is NOT the place for these discussions. This forum is to speak about all things MT. Disagreements about word choices or "gender" choices are irrelevant, inappropriate, and just otherwise, a nuisance.

This post is about a mod, for MT. Please keep all discussions in this post related to the topic, or take the discussion elsewhere.

We do not need an education in your opinions or the proper usage of words. We are Educated People, with our own ideas, opinions, concerns. Those ideas, opinions, and concerns will not always align with your own opinions, ideas or concerns. When they don't, discussion might be welcome, or it might not. Either way, most people really don't give a rats a$$ about it otherwise.

"They" and "their" are plural pronouns. They do not accurately describe anything singularly, but apply to more than one. While you may think your gender is fluid, and multiple, your are still a single individual person. So this whole convo gets annoyingly hilarious after about two of you spend 20 minutes explaining what you call yourself. We don't GIVE A SH!T. I'm gonna call you what I call you in the course of a conversation, because that is what is normal, and what human beings have done for thousands of years. If you interrupt the convo to correct my word choices, the convo is over! After all, I don't dictate that you call me sir, overlord, God, or any other name I've chosen. Why do you feel the need to do so???

Go be who you want to be. No one else (outside of your community) really cares how you describe yourself, or what you call yourself.


These comments by me are FALSE, OFFENSIVE, and INAPPROPRIATE! I apologize for my behavior, it is UNACCEPTABLE!!! I leave them as a reminder to myself of my bad behavior, to not censor my comments, even if wrong, for the sake of continuity in the thread.


ON TOPIC:

@Extex,

I know that years ago, I came across some text files on Gopher that contained names, meanings, gender, and even ethnicity. I can't imagine those text files aren't available on some university repository somewhere. It might help provide some more raw data for a name building mod.

On a side not though, why not just go with the name you are sigining in with. Then, all converations about "gender" bending or binary choices can be left to the user signing in. Saves a lot of effort.


However, this mod could certainly find use in naming NPCs.

Shad
Last edited by ShadMOrdre on Fri Dec 18, 2020 19:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by AlexYst » Post

ShadMOrdre wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 21:25
RANT:

Quite frankly, @AlexYst, this is NOT about your disagreements about gender or sex. This forum is NOT the place for these discussions. This forum is to speak about all things MT. Disagreements about word choices or "gender" choices are irrelevant, inappropriate, and just otherwise, a nuisance.

This post is about a mod, for MT. Please keep all discussions in this post related to the topic, or take the discussion elsewhere.

We do not need an education in your opinions or the proper usage of words. We are Educated People, with our own ideas, opinions, concerns. Those ideas, opinions, and concerns will not always align with your own opinions, ideas or concerns. When they don't, discussion might be welcome, or it might not. Either way, most people really don't give a rats a$$ about it otherwise.
First, my point is that I was recommending a gener-neutral option be added to the mod, which is entirely relevant to the discussion at hand, which is the mod.
ShadMOrdre wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 21:25
"They" and "their" are plural pronouns. They do not accurately describe anything singularly, but apply to more than one. While you may think your gender is fluid, and multiple, your are still a single individual person. So this whole convo gets annoyingly hilarious after about two of you spend 20 minutes explaining what you call yourself. We don't GIVE A SH!T. I'm gonna call you what I call you in the course of a conversation, because that is what is normal, and what human beings have done for thousands of years. If you interrupt the convo to correct my word choices, the convo is over! After all, I don't dictate that you call me sir, overlord, God, or any other name I've chosen. Why do you feel the need to do so???

Go be who you want to be. No one else (outside of your community) really cares how you describe yourself, or what you call yourself.


ON TOPIC:

@MisterE,

I know that years ago, I came across some text files on Gopher that contained names, meanings, gender, and even ethnicity. I can't imagine those text files aren't available on some university repository somewhere. It might help provide some more raw data for a name building mod.

On a side not though, why not just go with the name you are sigining in with. Then, all converations about "gender" bending or binary choices can be left to the user signing in. Saves a lot of effort.


However, this mod could certainly find use in naming NPCs.

Shad
Second, "they" is a plural pronoun just like "you" is a plural pronoun. If you want to get snotty about plural pronouns being used for single entities, the singular form of the word "you" is "thou". "You" is and always was a plural word, which is why you say, for example, "you are" and not "you is". If you're going to use singular "you" but deny singular "they", it only shows your hypocrisy. In the modern day, both "they" and "you" are used as singular pronouns in addition to their plural usage, and most people understand such usage.

Your nonbinary erasure is as unwelcome as any other form of transphobia.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by ShadMOrdre » Post

AlexYst,

I stand corrected and ashamed of my comments. I do apologize and hope that you can forgive me.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by MHL » Post

From what I found in a dictionary they could actually be used to describe a single man which surprised me because I am not native in proficient English. However it says the plural "they" is informal, while plural "you" is not. But of course that does not mean it can't be used in the mod because it is informal but I think the word "other" would be better.
AlexYst wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 06:46
Your nonbinary erasure is as unwelcome as any other form of transphobia.
Transphobia? Why are you assuming that this man has a phobia based on whether he likes trans-sexuals and trans-sexual ideology or not. I may not like dogs, but that doesn't necceseraliy mean I have cynophobia.

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Re: [Mod] Realistic player names [1.0.3] [real_names]

by MHL » Post

Another problem with non-English names:
As far as I know in Ukrainian, Russian, Czechorepublican, Slovakian and a few more languages there a female endings - *ova. Example:
A man named Linyos Torovoltos has a wife named Dmitriva TorovoltosOVA.

In Polish it's even more complicated:
The wife's name could be either: *owa, *ana and *ina
The (unmarried) daughter's name would be *anka or *ówna
And the endings depend (mainly) on whether the last name ends with a a, e, o, i, y, or not.
Example:
A men named Amigo Ponczo has a wife named Amiga Ponczana and a daughter named Amigusia Ponczanka.

Another example:
A men named Juliusz Jamnik has a wife named Janina Jamnikowa and a daughter named Jadwiga Jamnikówna.

This could be solved but it would require a much more complex code and I think other languages have other rules.
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