[Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.4]

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VanessaE
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by VanessaE » Post

One thing that's happened that ain't right: One of my users has a building in which most of the roof is made of one layer of Bobblocks um... blocks :-), on top of 4m walls, and when it snows or rains outside, occasionally I'll see particles INside, but more importantly, it'll leave puddles and piles of snow inside as well.

I'm pretty sure this isn't wanted.

As has been discussed before, they don't seem to melt or dry out.

Outside:
Image

Inside:
Image
I am standing in the area where the roof above has dark blocks and solar panels (as seen in the previous image); rain/snow does not accumulate here, only in the areas where the ceiling/roof is composed only of Bobblocks blocks.

This is a fresh clone of the whole tree from earlier today (that is, Aug 18, 1530 UTC), commit 38ccd1c0 of the containing pack, with everything at default settings.

** One of my admins has some remarks also:

"I will suggest to him to have 1 thing happen at a time then have a break between sequences. There were 5 things that happened back to back in about a minute earlier.

It started to snow, had a blizzard, rained, got foggy, then to sunny in less than a minute."

I.e. frequent weather changes in a very short interval, and he was standing still at that time.

** Couple feature requests:

It would be nice if snow/rain could blow in from outside i.e. through an open door, though I'm not sure how that could be reliably detected.

Also, a storm drain node may be useful. It need not do anything special, just run an ABM that will delete puddles near it (and perhaps also progressively reduce the size of a pile of snow), as long as it's lower elevation than the puddle of course.
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by TestificateMods » Post

VanessaE wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 22:14
I am standing in the area where the roof above has dark blocks and solar panels (as seen in the previous image); rain/snow does not accumulate here, only in the areas where the ceiling/roof is composed only of Bobblocks blocks.
That is odd. One thing I know is slightly weird about my mod is that it is possible to rain / snow through glass nodes. That happens because the detection whether something is outside or not is based on the light level (indoor areas can be level 14 max whereas outside is always 15 at midday). There is nothing I can do about it and it is a general problem with every weather mod that I know. Without knowing that mod, I suspect bobblocks have a similar property. If they let light pass then both the light-based detection as well the raycast-based detection will recognize that area as outside.
"I will suggest to him to have 1 thing happen at a time then have a break between sequences. There were 5 things that happened back to back in about a minute earlier.
The problem with my general approach is that weather sequences are never triggered explicitly. If the temperature or humidity changes and fulfills the requirements for a different weather type then it will change all by itself. That is very useful for separating weather in different areas. Thus, I cannot implement a hard limit on triggered sequences. However, I have been told about this issue a couple times now. And as a result, I will try to slow down changes in temperature, humidity, and so on. That way, weather changes should happen less frequently.
It would be nice if snow/rain could blow in from outside i.e. through an open door, though I'm not sure how that could be reliably detected.
That is definitely possible. Damage detection during sandstorms can already detect that when enabled in the config. One reason I haven't included such a feature so far is the heavy performance impact of raycasts. I would need a lot of them in order to make it work. I can look into it when I find the time. However, this would always stay an optional feature that needs to be specifically enabled. I imagine that only very good PCs or dedicated servers will be able to handle that kind of stress.
Also, a storm drain node may be useful. It need not do anything special, just run an ABM that will delete puddles near it (and perhaps also progressively reduce the size of a pile of snow), as long as it's lower elevation than the puddle of course.
That sounds like a fun idea. I will look into it.

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by VanessaE » Post

Yeah Bobblocks blocks are just a fancy color of glass and are transparent to sunlight. Still, the inside bit is easy:

Particles of course can collide with things and stop.

For puddle/snow accumulation, do your normal raycast and light level checks, but treat them as a "filter". If those checks found a target to land a puddle on, then check a 1x1 column of nodes directly above the puddle's target position, up to say 10m, working upwards from the target. If you find a node other than air, stop checking (exit early), and treat everything below that position as "inside", then place the puddle on top of that position. Same logic for snow. No one builds ceilings that high to begin with, so if their roof still leaks, call it a feature. :-)

Since you're only leaving puddles occasionally to begin with, the up-to-10-node test won't have a noticeable impact on performance (especially if the server's using LuaJIT, which surely most do by now).

For weather changes, without looking at your API, I imagine you have some function that says "start this weather event now". So, why not just check minetest.get_us_time(), at the start of that call, then if the last time the call was run is more than a couple minutes ago or whatever, dump out of the call without starting the new weather event.
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by Bastrabun » Post

How about the other way round? Raycast from cloud level down until you hit something, like a raindrop would do? Then place on top of the node you hit.

If you raycast from bottom up, puddles might not exist in the basement, but in the first floor. While a roof is still on top, when both let light pass through.

Raycasting down could also give you an idea of where to show rain particles and and where not. *Usually* this doesn't change often, so maybe do that only when starting a new weather?

No clue what's better performance-wise, load the 1x1 column into a voxelmanip and check from top to bottom until first non-air node is found and place a puddle on top or do a raycast?

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by Andrey01 » Post

Wow, cool! Although, the weather mods have been posted here already not few, but the snowy storm on the video seems to be something quite new :)

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by VanessaE » Post

I guess he's already raycasting from cloud to ground, but raycasts pass through transparent-to-sunlight nodes like glass (and Bobblocks :-P), so a manual check upwards from where the raycast actually stopped would be the next step.

Also, this is absolutely needed, since snow destroys crops and a greenhouse can't stop it because of the light/ray checks.
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by TestificateMods » Post

VanessaE wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 14:12
For puddle/snow accumulation, do your normal raycast and light level checks, but treat them as a "filter". If those checks found a target to land a puddle on, then check a 1x1 column of nodes directly above the puddle's target position, up to say 10m, working upwards from the target.
That sounds like it could work. Thanks.
For weather changes, without looking at your API, I imagine you have some function that says "start this weather event now". So, why not just check minetest.get_us_time(), at the start of that call, then if the last time the call was run is more than a couple minutes ago or whatever, dump out of the call without starting the new weather event.
Not really. There's no real transition because the entire system is state-less. It checks the current temperature, humidity, etc. values on each call and then just spawns particles off of that. There's no real "Change from A to B" anywhere. And in addition to that, sometimes multiple weather types will be applied at the same time, e.g. storm and snow to create a snow storm. So a hard time limit wouldn't work even if I did put in the work to cache previous states.
I am positive, though, that simply tweaking the random noise generator should already help. It's hard to find fitting values for all scenarios because they are way more complex than e.g. a static timer.

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by TestificateMods » Post

Bastrabun wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 14:48
How about the other way round? Raycast from cloud level down until you hit something, like a raindrop would do? Then place on top of the node you hit.
VanessaE wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 14:53
I guess he's already raycasting from cloud to ground, but raycasts pass through transparent-to-sunlight nodes
Sort of. I go by light-level instead of raycast but the result is exactly identical - I tested both ways.
Raycasts are a bit less performant but would allow for slightly angled snow covers (based on the wind). That's all the difference I can see. Both methods have the same issue regarding transparent nodes.
Andrey01 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 14:51
Wow, cool! Although, the weather mods have been posted here already not few, but the snowy storm on the video seems to be something quite new :)
Thank you. And yes. A lot of the weather types haven't been done before. :)
The most important change, though, gotta be regional differences in weather - most mods only have one global weather type active.

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by TestificateMods » Post

VanessaE wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 16:19
Raycasts seem like they might be useful for the "blow in through the open door" idea (as long as you make sure the ray passes through the bottom half, so that the window doesn't cause an issue).

Would a raycast actually pass through an open door?
Exactly. I'm not sure about the door but it could blow snow under overhangs and such.

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by VanessaE » Post

Raycasts seem like they might be useful for the "blow in through the open door" idea (as long as you make sure the ray passes through the bottom half, so that the window doesn't cause an issue).

Would a raycast actually pass through an open door?

Though if you use the 1x1x10 idea (or is that 1x10x1 :-P ) to protect against transparent roofs/ceilings, you wouldn't be able to have snow drift in at an angle through e.g. an open side of a building (like a gazebo or similar). That is, unless you check a line of nodes following the same angle (and "anti-alias" it so that you don't e.g. miss a wall-roof corner).

(oops! deleted my post by mistake!)
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by Sokomine » Post

Regarding the snow drifting idea: Perhaps no raycasting at all is required for that part. Snow on the ground might just wander in the direction of the wind using an abm/lbm. Still wouldn't be able to get through doors or other such nodes as they'd be other blocks than air, and my trick in moresnow with putting snow just one higher won't work either because the door already takes up all the space. But perhaps it might work in a diffrent way: The snow node wandering in might be two blocks in size horizontally - a bit like a bed except that it'd be one node only.
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by VanessaE » Post

My users are complaining that it seems to always be either raining, snowing, or foggy i.e. there just isn't much in the way of sunny days. The snow accumulation is enough that users can't keep up with it, which is compounded by snow/puddles not melting/drying. Plus fallen snow destroys crops, and with the lack of solid ceiling checks, it's impossible to build a greenhouse or transparent roof.

I had to disable puddles and snow accumulation (and create a stub of a mod to properly alias them away, though I did worldedit-out most of that which had already accumulated).

The reason your aliasing code does not work, at least for puddles, is that you define your nodes in the form "regional_weather:puddle_"..N..F where N is 1 to 39 and F is either empty or "_flipped". But your aliases are of the form "regional_weather:puddle_"..N.."_"..R where N is 1 to 39 and R is 0, 90, or 270. So when puddles are disabled, you're aliasing node names to air that you never defined to begin with.

To put it mildly, this modpack needs tuning.

Also, you should not refer users to settingtypes.txt as there are at least three such files, and not everyone understands them. Please create a central config document that better explains things.
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by Sokomine » Post

Vanessae wrote: Plus fallen snow destroys crops,
My moresnows mod can put snow covers on plants without destroying them. Perhaps that might be a solution for this mod as well? However, digging one snow or plant may still trigger the snow on the entire field falling and then also destroying the plants :-(
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by Conradish006 » Post

I really like this mod!

I think the idea is super cool. Especially the thunderstorms with the lightning that will cause damage to a player. As stated before, the snow and rain goes through all nodes that light passes through, therefore ruining greenhouses and such.

Another issue I'd love to see resolved is the transitions between the different weather cycles. It's much too fast, and and it's often raining, snowing, and foggy all within a minute in real time. I would enjoy it if there was more time when it was sunny, as it is always snowing or raining.

As stated before, I really like this! But it definitely needs some adjustments.
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by Starbeamrainbowlabs » Post

Is there any way to change the biome in a specific location? I've flattened a rainforest with WorldEdit and built a mountain instead, but I'm still getting rainforest weather :-/

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.2]

by TestificateMods » Post

VanessaE wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 16:45
The snow accumulation is enough that users can't keep up with it, which is compounded by snow/puddles not melting/drying.
Yeah, right now they only melt when it gets warmer again. I can see this causing issues in regions that are consistently cold. I will tweak this so that they melt independent of temperature. That way, they won't exceed a treshold.
So when puddles are disabled, you're aliasing node names to air that you never defined to begin with.
That must be an artifact of a previous version that's not been updated. Thx for pointing that out.
Edit: I checked the code and I cannot find what you are talking about. In the abms/puddle.lua, I assign an alias in line 21.But I do indeed use the correct name.
To put it mildly, this modpack needs tuning.
It is very much a WIP - especially the proportions of different weather effects. I never stated anything else.
It is a really big project for one person to do in their free time, so of course it takes a while.
Sokomine wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 22:21
My moresnows mod can put snow covers on plants without destroying them. Perhaps that might be a solution for this mod as well?
Snow destroying crops was very much intended. And hopefully, with the planned additional outdoors check this won't be that much of a hassle anymore. But you are right that not everybody wants such a feature, so I will make it configurable.
Conradish006 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 15:08
Another issue I'd love to see resolved is the transitions between the different weather cycles. It's much too fast, and and it's often raining, snowing, and foggy all within a minute in real time. I would enjoy it if there was more time when it was sunny, as it is always snowing or raining.
Thank you for the feedback. Testing these sorts of things is really hard and tedious to do, so I appreciate any information I get about this. I will look into it.
Starbeamrainbowlabs wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 00:34
Is there any way to change the biome in a specific location?
Sadly not because the mod uses the temperature and humidity assigned to an area at world generation. Once I have resolved all the other issues, I might look into a buildable weather machine or something like that, so you can adjust a region's base values. This will take a fair amount of time, though.

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.3]

by TestificateMods » Post

I only have a couple days for modding right now but I wanted to address the most common issues.
As a consequence, I have uploaded a quick patch to the ContentDB.
I have tweaked the noise generator to update less frequently and I have also implemented a simple ceiling check. You can now happily build farms underneath a glass dome.If you don't like the destructive snow then you can even disable it completely. I have not, however, addressed the mentioned abundance of rain yet. That will take more time and testing.

Also, the modpack no longer includes the forked sailboat and mobkit. People had issues with duplicate installations of that. You can still get the sailboat here and mobkit here.

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.3]

by VanessaE » Post

Code: Select all

2020-10-10 08:05:37: WARNING[Main]: Undeclared global variable "S" accessed at ...orld/worldmods/climate-modpack/regional_weather/init.lua:43
2020-10-10 08:05:37: ACTION[Main]: Server: Shutting down
For those who don't need translations, edit line 43 of that file to just not pass the string through S(), to get the mod running until it can be properly fixed.
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.3]

by TestificateMods » Post

VanessaE wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 08:11
For those who don't need translations, edit line 43 of that file to just not pass the string through S(), to get the mod running until it can be properly fixed.
Oh. Thanks for letting me know. I was wondering how I could've overlooked something like that. Turns out it only happens in the initialization warning which is why it didn't crash for me. It's supposed to notify you to do the rest of the installation process as described in the main post here. Not crash, obviously. I'll get around to fix that. I would still highly recommend to disable the default weather mechanism after installation. A lot of features simply don't work correctly when that feature is enabled. My weather mod does similar (yet more advanced) things anyways, so there's no need in leaving it active.

Edit: The bug is fixed now. It will no longer crash when the default weather mod is active. I still advise to turn it off, though.

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.4]

by VanessaE » Post

Sorry for the late reply... I must have missed the part about disabling the default weather mod, but can you tell me just *why* it should be disabled? I mean to say, what does it break or negatively affect?
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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.4]

by TestificateMods » Post

VanessaE wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 16:44
I mean to say, what does it break or negatively affect?
The default weather mod randomizes cloud density based on a biome's worldgen temperature.
My mod sets the cloud density based on current local humidity (meaning more clouds during rain for example) as well as cloud color, height, etc. based on various conditions. If you have the default mod enabled then both mods will fight in a way, constantly setting and resetting the clouds. That can look really weird and breaks the whole system.

The default weather mod doesn't do anything else, though. So it's safe to disable.

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.4]

by sirrobzeroone » Post

Really like the mod, the climate api and the regional weather are really cool working togther. I had a couple of quick questions:

Wind same across whole map?
I had a quick dig through the sailboat mod to try and work out how wind works. I saw it seems to always pick up wind from pos 0,0,0.

Code: Select all

local wind = climate_api.environment.get_wind({x=0,y=0,z=0})
I'm guessing/assuming from that, that wind intensity and direction are the same across the whole map - I did pull the wind from a bunch of random coords and they all seem to match, but only so many I can sample. I wanted to check as I didnt want to make that assumption and have missed something from regional weather.
Answer_Wind_Strength wrote: I was well wrong on this one wind strength varies by height and quiet significantly found this one in the climateAPI somewhere
Wind Direction?
I've converted yaw to degrees seem to have stable figure returned between 0 and 360. I am experiencing the anti-clockwise issue ie east is 270 but not major concern for my needs as this is more my curisoity. My question is if I get a degrees result of say 0 (also 0 Radians) which is north does this mean the wind is blowing from the north to the south or blowing from the south to the north? basically is the degree or radian point the start or end for wind?

Wind Speed?
I played around with manually set_wind and noticed to make it howl with anything above 2 but I have no idea what this relates to in regards to wind strength in either kms or miles an hour? I've probably just missed the info somewhere so appreciate a pointer in the right direction :)
Answer_Wind_Speed wrote: Edit - After over thinking this way to much I found the answer in the API and Audrey71confirmed - putting this here in case someone else has a similar question - viewtopic.php?f=47&t=25628&p=383802#p383802

API - speed: 2D cloud speed + direction in nodes per second (default {x=0, z=-2}).

Pretty simple unless you overthink it like I was in 1 second clouds move 0 nodes along X and -2 nodes along Z. In this case the clouds are moving at 2m/s from Z+ to Z-. Simply use Pythagoras theorem to calculate wind speed, heres my Lua which also adjusts windspeed to Km/h & Mp/h:

Code: Select all

local pos = player:get_pos()
local wind = climate_api.environment.get_wind(pos)
local wind_speed_kmh = (math.sqrt(math.pow(math.abs(wind.x),2) + math.pow(math.abs(wind.z),2)))*3.6
local wind_speed_mph = (math.sqrt(math.pow(math.abs(wind.x),2) + math.pow(math.abs(wind.z),2)))*2.237
Thanks for the great mod and the any help with the above

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Re: [Modpack] Regional Weather Bundle [climate] [1.0.4]

by TestificateMods » Post

sirrobzeroone wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 03:39
I had a quick dig through the sailboat mod to try and work out how wind works. I saw it seems to always pick up wind from pos 0,0,0.
Oh, yeah, It used to be the same everywhere but not it depends on altitude. So far that is the only dynamic component of it but that may not be true in the future. It's best to use the get_wind method with the correct coordinates.
My question is if I get a degrees result of say 0 (also 0 Radians) which is north does this mean the wind is blowing from the north to the south or blowing from the south to the north? basically is the degree or radian point the start or end for wind?
I'm actually not quite sure about that. The wind uses a vector internally (with y always being zero). So vec(1,0,0) means the wind is blowing in x-direction (meaning towards positive x). I am using the Minetest built-in conversion function to output radians.
I played around with manually set_wind and noticed to make it howl with anything above 2 but I have no idea what this relates to in regards to wind strength in either kms or miles an hour? I've probably just missed the info somewhere so appreciate a pointer in the right direction :)
The "storm" weather type is triggered when sais vector has a length of at least three, i.e. three nodes per second (10.8 km/h if you approximate a node to be a meter).
API - speed: 2D cloud speed + direction in nodes per second (default {x=0, z=-2}).
Yes. Climate API wind speeds work exactly the same as Minetest's cloud speed.

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