[Mod] Tech Age [techage]

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by DarkSide » Post

Ok Danke, nach neuen Versuch hats geklappt ;-)
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by ZenonSeth » Post

Been trying this mod on a public server. It's interesting and enjoying

My one biggest problem so far is that solar panel output is based on temperature.

It's not exactly how it works in real life - for example high mountains are cold but can get great solar power. I can venture a guess that it was done out of trying to make things more difficult, or at least "not easy".

But the two main problems with the way it is now are:
  1. Solar panels already aren't an "easy" power source. Each pair gives really minor output compared to fuel based generators so you need to mass build a lot anyway. On top of that, they are also off for half the time - during night-time, so you need to stack lots of batteries.
  2. The major problem: unless you get lucky with where you're building, you will have to either move your entire construction base (which is not something this mod is suited for), or you will have to use a Forceload block - which is available in limited numbers on servers, or may not be available at all if a server owner doesn't want to allow players to introduce lag.
The Forceload block soft requirement is the worst thing imho - considering that some servers won't give you any, for obvious reasons - or even if they do, they will give 1 maybe 2 of them. In the worst case it just makes solar a useless power source not worth any effort. In the best case, I have to waste a forceload block and build hundreds of blocks of connection for power that's on only half the time.

In my opinion the temperature based output of solar doesn't contribute to making the mod more fun, only more frustrating due to the reasons listed above.

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Thanks for you report. I really value other opinions and ideas.
Solar panels already aren't an "easy" power source
Yes, that's on purpose. The big advantage of solar panels are that they need no fuel and run forever, but this with extra costs and difficulties.
during night-time, so you need to stack lots of batteries.
Yes, that's on purpose, too. :)
It should not be to easy, players should face the same problems and challenges we have in real.
or you will have to use a Forceload block - which is available in limited numbers on servers
Each player has 20 forceload blocks by default. But this can be configured by the server owner. On "Tech Age Survival" this is set to 24. This is enough for huge solar power farms.
or forceload blocks may not be available at all if a server owner doesn't want to allow players to introduce lag.
Then you should switch to another server. The server owner obviously didn't understand techage.
In my opinion the temperature based output of solar doesn't contribute to making the mod more fun, only more frustrating due to the reasons listed above.
This is a matter of opinion. I have many players on my server, which came with similar ideas to simplify techage. But techage is no speedrun game. Players should have the possibility to spend many hours with techage to increase and optimize the machines, farms and plants, power distribution and so on.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Festus1965 » Post

That seam then belong to here:
ulla wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 00:28
Festus1965 wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 23:53
Server was down in the moment after crash and I still check what maybe to do to avoid it :

Code: Select all

2023-01-29 06:43:46: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: Lua: Runtime error from mod 'xtraores' in callback item_OnPlace(): .../thomas/minetest/bin/../mods/techage/digtron/battery.lua:33: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got nil)
stack traceback:
 	[C]: in function 'pairs'
 	.../thomas/minetest/bin/../mods/techage/digtron/battery.lua:33: in function 'count_coal'
 	.../thomas/minetest/bin/../mods/techage/digtron/battery.lua:43: in function 'formspec'
 	.../thomas/minetest/bin/../mods/techage/digtron/battery.lua:155: in function 'on_rightclick'
 	/home/thomas/minetest/bin/../builtin/game/item.lua:455: in function </home/thomas/minetest/bin/../builtin/game/item.lua:448>
check now if both mods (xtraores or digtrton) have an update, that I direct use to restart ...
* [Mod] digtron (ed62ae3/21.08.2021) in use ...
new found : 972b691 22.10.2022 - preparing ...

* [mod] xtraores (815fec1/23.06.2017) in use ...
at original saved link same version ... no other location with a fork found
= stay same version, as also this is first time both mod make a problem in 2 years ?
Low techage battery left attached to the digtron, and made to work with coal, if the fuel count problem cannot be solved, I recommend adding the message "remove low battery" to the digtron stop phase
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Thanks for the report. A bugfix is on GitHub.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by ZenonSeth » Post

[removed because it's pointless to discuss changes with a condescending mod author who misses the point completely]
Last edited by ZenonSeth on Wed Feb 01, 2023 04:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Festus1965 » Post

joe7575 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 16:02
Thanks for the report. A bugfix is on GitHub.
saw the github mails
download new version,
implemented it
will restart later when most less player online
and report when that one uses this battery again with point on same situation
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Techage Minecart Elevator Demo


https://youtu.be/9AABDEUzU9I

Requires techage v1.11 and minecart v2.04
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Blockhead » Post

If I am using the modpack version, do I have to use the version of basic materials bundled with Techage? Is it bundled just for convenience or can I not use mainline? Does it need a specific version of mainline basic materials?
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

It is only for convenience, you can use your own basic_materials mod.
As far as I remember there was a missing recipe issue in the past, but the current version works fine
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by HighPopes » Post

Melting pot renders as black
Skamiz Kazzarch wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 18:41
That's a bug in the respective mods and you should report it to them.
The issue is that mesh nodes should generally use paramtype = "light" to adapt their internal brightness to the environment, if they don't you get the problem you are having.

The reason why this wasn't immediately fixed is that the issue is only really visible if 'Smooth Lighting' is turned off.
When it's turned on you only get a weird shadow instead of total blackness.

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Thanks for the report, should be fixed now.
CDB got an update "2023-03-05"
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by DarkSide » Post

Frage / Vorschlag

TA3 Kohle/Öl Kraftwerk kann man via Tanks die Öl Zufuhr sicherstellen.
Wäre es auch machbar / sinnvoll, das für die Boiler mit Wasser auch sicher zustellen (denn die haben nur max 10 Liter Wasser) ?
Weiter so mit dem Mod ;)
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Blockhead » Post

The link to ta4_jetpack is a bad link, it's not a valid forum thread or GitHub link.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

DarkSide wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 09:54
TA3 Kohle/Öl Kraftwerk kann man via Tanks die Öl Zufuhr sicherstellen.
Wäre es auch machbar / sinnvoll, das für die Boiler mit Wasser auch sicher zustellen (denn die haben nur max 10 Liter Wasser) ?
Die Anfrage kommt immer wieder mal. Machbar wäre es sicher, es war aber Absicht. Spätestens wenn der Generator ein paarmal ausgeht, weil kein Wasser mehr da ist, wir man als genervter Spieler zu TA4 Stromquellen greifen und den TA3 Generator vielleicht nur noch als Notstromversorgung oder für Lastspitzen einsetzen.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Blockhead wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 06:50
The link to ta4_jetpack is a bad link, it's not a valid forum thread or GitHub link.
Thanks, is fixed.
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[Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Festus1965 » Post

possible to aim for an CO2 footprint calculator part to this (or even able to enlarge for mtg or even technic) ?

as of wood, coal and oil used to burn not to much source there ?
getting us and sure a lot of schools to the problem of our future ?

could even ask for real data : play on PC, mobile ... grid/solar and put this CO2 into also ?
not thinking about basic internet part we have, or even server we play footprint ?

just start easy if, but keep that enlargement in mind ...

that could go so far, that if burn too much fossile the player itself might get problems, faster need food, less power to work, walk ...
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by debiankaios » Post

I would propose to add a new mod for the CO2 footprint calculator. This mod could added later to techage(it is a modpack). It should also seperated that would produce lesser co2 than coal and oil, and coal lesser than oil, but oil power plants should make more ele than coal and more than wood. Only a suggestion

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by DarkSide » Post

Hätte da eine Idee.
Wenn die Energie Speicher so bei 90 - 95% voll sind, könnte ein Modul (Wie das Stromanzeige Modul) die Strom Generator ausschalten.
Das würde am Stromkabel, am Generator gesetzt. (als bsp. )
Wäre gut für den Co2 Abdruck. ;)
( Festus Idee)
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Festus1965 » Post

Das klingt wie die aktuellen Steuereinheiten bei Hausvernetzung:
* Strom laden / speichern, wenn billig oder eben Solarzellen ausgelastet
der Hybrid Inverter hier kennt bei Batterien 3 Modi : nur durch Solar füllen, zB.,
* oder Prioritäten beim Strombezug, solange Batterie über x% Ladung oder Volt nutzen, sonst umschalten auf ...

nichts dringend - einfach Anregungen,
wenn die mod eh schon so toll an der Realität liegt.

Sind die Stromeinheiten eigentlich vergleichbar in Realität und zueinander ?
CO2 für zB pillar, Hochofen etc. wird man wohl aus der Realität ermitteln können. Mal bei Gelegenheit mal gucken obs da Werte gibt.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Festus1965 wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 00:38
possible to aim for an CO2 footprint calculator part to this (or even able to enlarge for mtg or even technic) ?

as of wood, coal and oil used to burn not to much source there ?
getting us and sure a lot of schools to the problem of our future ?

could even ask for real data : play on PC, mobile ... grid/solar and put this CO2 into also ?
not thinking about basic internet part we have, or even server we play footprint ?

just start easy if, but keep that enlargement in mind ...

that could go so far, that if burn too much fossile the player itself might get problems, faster need food, less power to work, walk ...
The idea of calculating the CO2 footprint is not new, but the implementation raises a few questions:
- Should only be considered oil or coal burned in TA generators?
- What about liquids refined from oil?
- Should wood or charcoal also be calculated?
- Should planted trees be counted against this?
- What about mining ores?
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

DarkSide wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:57
Hätte da eine Idee.
Wenn die Energie Speicher so bei 90 - 95% voll sind, könnte ein Modul (Wie das Stromanzeige Modul) die Strom Generator ausschalten.
Das würde am Stromkabel, am Generator gesetzt. (als bsp. )
Wäre gut für den Co2 Abdruck. ;)
( Festus Idee)
Das ist heute schon so.
Aus dem Manual:
Alle TA3/TA4 Energiequellen besitzen eine einstellbare Ladecharakteristik. Standardmäßig ist diese auf "80% - 100%" eingestellt. Dies bedeutet, dass die Leistung ab 80% Füllung des Speichersystems immer weiter reduziert wird, bis sie bei 100 % komplett abschaltet. Sofern Strom im Netzwerk benötigt wird, werden die 100 % nie erreicht, da die Leistung des Generators irgendwann auf den Strombedarf im Netzwerk abgesunken ist und damit das Speichersystem nicht mehr geladen, sondern nur noch die Verbraucher bedient werden.

Dies hat mehrere Vorteile:

- Die Ladecharakteristik ist einstellbar. Damit kann man bspw. Öl/Kohle Energiequellen bei 60% und die regenerativen Energiequellen erst bei 80% zurückfahren. Damit wird nur Öl/Kohle verbrannt, wenn nicht ausreichend regenerativen Energiequellen zur Verfügung stehen.

- Mehrere Energiequellen können parallel betrieben werden und werden dabei nahezu gleichmäßig belastet, denn alle Energiequellen arbeiten bspw. bis 80% Ladekapazität des Speichersystems mit ihrer vollen Leistung und fahren dann gleichzeitig ihre Leistung zurück.

.....
techage_power_reduction.png
techage_power_reduction.png (909 Bytes) Viewed 2022 times


Hier die Originsal-Texte:
Deutsch: https://github.com/joe7575/techage/blob ... ersystemen
English: https://github.com/joe7575/techage/blob ... ge-systems
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Festus1965 » Post

joe7575 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 16:59
Festus1965 wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 00:38
possible to aim for an CO2 footprint calculator part to this (or even able to enlarge for mtg or even technic) ?
...
The idea of calculating the CO2 footprint is not new, but the implementation raises a few questions:
- Should only be considered oil or coal burned in TA generators?
- What about liquids refined from oil?
- Should wood or charcoal also be calculated?
- Should planted trees be counted against this?
- What about mining ores?
mhh keep it simple (sure for beginning) and basic:
* CO2 is a result of burning fuel that releases CO2
So we have in the mod
* the pur burning of CO2 bases fuel in furnace from wood to oil, and coal up to oil and based materials,
* and later also the usage of energy (electric) that also can be based on CO2 fuel, but that need only to be calculated at the fuel-generator unit.
Energy from battery, heat exchange is then 'neutral' as the CO2 production happened before and no further thoughts about it.

As in other post seen, if shut down fuel electric energy with 60% ?, keep energy storage over this mark, keeps this CO2 related power out of order = automatic reduce.

Wood as a building material we keep neutral, even we know that this might be CO2 storage at all.
Food production we also can keep out of calculation, as in our case, farming of wheat to rice happened also since mankind.

The basic PLUS of CO2 was and still is the release of huge stored CO2 based energy as of coal, oil and gas (oh, mod missing gas fields, similar to oil, haha) !
* so it is main enough to focus on this sources (coal, gas and oil)
* and only take the burning of wood in if ... want, as to burn it, we plant it also - normally

Liquids from oil : yes, as used for power = burn with oxygen = release CO2 (gasoline generator)

Charcoal is made and burned = released CO2, sure or ?

Mining ores : ? not sure where there is CO2 released, by an open mine, be the power used to mine it yes, see digtron powered by wood, coal, oil - but gets the same sources we have the data (digtron is other mod, so maybe later when main basis is done, working)


And so as the sources are limited (in real world, as special here in minetest with mtg, basic and techage),
I just open short https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datser ... ndex_e.php and have a look:
- Direct CO2 emissions from various fuels in relation to the primary energy content
Fuel : Emissions in g CO2/kWhPE
* wood : neutral (as/if replanted)
* coal : various 338 until 407
* gasoline : 263
* fuel oil : 266
* diesel : 266
* kerosine : 264
* gas : from 201 - 239
and fix to the fuel we have not so much (oil from leaves might be wood ?)

further also the table of
- Specific CO2-emissions of different fuels in power generation
as the efficiency is different (how much need to get the target power)

also shown loss of some fuel as of is open, transported ... (we can keep that out)


another source offer data about needed energy to get ... Steel :
https://www.energy.gov/eere/amo/article ... ions-march
with also CO2 emissions from that, Table E-1
but when our energy CO2 is measured at the usage direct or beginning it is calculated,
the only part here might be adjust the used fuel / energy by the nodes we have in techage, if we wanna fit the reality. Table E-2 (all top of document)

So i guess then we have to rate the weight of a wooden trunk,
as liquids are in a unit (liter, barrel)

So the source is limited, and the machines using it are limited - compare to real world.
We have no meat production with methan (yet), no house heating, and no traffic (car, truck) what keeps it simple at beginning.
* source : wood, leaves to oil, charcoal (based on wood spend in), coal and oil
* burned in : furnace (basic from mtg), TA1 melting pot tower (charcoal), TA3 fuel generators (coal, oil), generator with gasoline
* all other machines using electric are out, as the CO2 measure happen by producing the electric

maybe I missed a bit ... but I hope you reader get the direction
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Festus1965 » Post

So a short view of the player life in mt with techage:

That might need a player related CO2 account then,
if we want to add also a server sum of CO2 released by timeframe and shut down the world after too much CO2 released is another fun

* first furnace with wood, oil and coal to get gold, copper, iron ingot
* then TA1 malting pot with charcoal
* mechanical axis power by coal, ... later oil
* change to electric power, but still use wood, charcoal, coal, oil (gas)
* CO2 emission stop with use of solar and wind

CO2 owner by builder of that node or ownership ? (shared energy pool ?)

Maybe later enlarge also CO2 account be plant a sapling to make it possible to get account back to 0 ...
If someone is able to use only wood, might be nice as if plant it back = fair solution.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Festus1965 » Post

joe7575 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 17:09
Das ist heute schon so.
- Die Ladecharakteristik ist einstellbar. Damit kann man bspw. Öl/Kohle Energiequellen bei 60% und die regenerativen Energiequellen erst bei 80% zurückfahren.
Wo ? Wie ? ist mir nie aufgefallen
* dachte es in mod settings allgemein, klingt aber eher als context menu am generator
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