[Mod] Tech Age [techage]

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by c56 » Post

Creepi3224 wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 17:39
what is the fuel of ele power source
you can edit posts no need to spam ;P why are you using this mod in creative mode ? the ele power source does not need any fuel (it is a creative mode only item for testing things ) and the generator needs i think gasoline
this is a signature not a place to post messages also if i could change my username i would change it to sell_her_on55

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Creepi3224 » Post

c56 wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 21:33
Creepi3224 wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 17:39
what is the fuel of ele power source
you can edit posts no need to spam ;P why are you using this mod in creative mode ? the ele power source does not need any fuel (it is a creative mode only item for testing things ) and the generator needs i think gasoline
if I use it in creative mode its because I can't do it in mode survived the particle accelerator so I try to do it in creative mode because every time I plug a generator into it 'accelerator it produces 0.11 ku

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

One generator is not sufficient, you need more power. In addition, you should install a storage system like the "Thermal Energy Storage". Otherwise, the power supply will not be stable.

I can't get rid of the thought that you started with the TA4 collider directly in creative mode to collect necessary points for TA5. Otherwise, you should have encountered problems much sooner. Anyone who has already played through all the levels has gained so much experience that the TA4 Collider should not pose a major problem.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Here is an interesting report to Tech Age
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by debiankaios » Post

Adding special home-teleporter-points which you need to be in near to go home. /spawn should be aviable every time because else you could be traped. You could combine the nodes with Satellites(if they are comming in future)

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

debiankaios wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 17:22
Adding special home-teleporter-points which you need to be in near to go home. /spawn should be aviable every time because else you could be traped. You could combine the nodes with Satellites(if they are comming in future)
Teleportation is not a typical techage feature. There are already other mods, which allow to teleport.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Preservoir » Post

Some impressions and thoughts about Minetest Techage (TA) mod.
I played TA in 09/2022 at Archtec sever with 5.6.1 client. Suppose there is no much difference under other versions.

1. Impressions
TA mod is good. One of the best I've seen in Minetest. Cozy graphical approach, advanced in-game manual, strong reference to realism. I even could learn several new things in tech - how do work thrust, gearing, chemical reactions. Almost no bugs.

2. Oh, bugs
I have not reached TA5 yet. So far, remarks concern manual at most.
2.1. 'Lighter' is a specific craftable block. Not obvious, could be mentioned in manual.
2.2. Flint-and-steel must be used on lighter. Not obvious, could be mentioned in manual.
2.3. In manual Chemical Reactor plan, silo is at top and tank is at bottom. This position works for some recipes. For some other recipes vice versa: tank must be at top and silo must be at bottom. Manual contains no clue about this fact. I still don't know if it is a bug or a feature. Killed several hours to understand.
2.4. In manual Chemical Reactor plan, TA3 (not TA4) tank and silo are depicted. Though, such system is operable.
2.5. We could not make Elecrolyzer output anything, even together with server admin.

3. Automation
I crafted core machines in 1-2 items and proceeded forward. I almost did not use pushers, pumps, controllers. Automation appears not essential, assembling auto lines takes more effort than operating by hand. No impressive factories, no industrial design. This makes TA "walkthrough" pretty fast, and is disadvantage vs other tech mods, where quantity of production is necessary for technological breakdown.

4. Progress to TA5
Collider and Fusion Reactor require very very much aluminum (at least 2000 of bauxite cobble in my version). It means hours of digging and/or manufacturing. I understand joe7575's idea that it should be done with strong effort, preferably on cooperation basis. But what next? A player with high XP points a) will transfer no more necessary collider parts to another player; b) will have excess of energy and will transfer energy to other players. What other players are supposed to do? now they lose motivation to advance, or even worse - they have a portal to jump into TA5 without due stepping on TA1-TA4 stairs.
All this makes TA a good self-sufficient game, but weakly integrated into a gameserver life.

5. Proposals
The hardest (for me) part of my essay. How do early-game woodcutters/farmers co-live with fusion tycoons on one server, without destroying balance? TA mod inherits the problem from IRL's twisted global economy.
Some humble ideas, subject to test in the field.
5.1. Minegeld inflation to be based on manual woodcutting (not on industrial products). Already applied on Archtec sever, thanks to Niklp/Adrian. We will observe the results.
5.2. Components requiring separate laborous technology. E.g. tulip farm -> red dye boiler -> red car. Red Car will be a status sign, and its producer/owner will have to pay farmer very much for this dye. Components must be unique, not used in common recipes.
5.3. Non-material ambitions motivation by server admin. E.g. vote-based signs / memorials for most beautiful buildings / most useful public structures.
5.4. Still thinking.

This text can be used on GPL terms :)

With best regards,
Preservoir@outlook.com

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Thanks for the extensive review. I'll look at it point by point
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by debiankaios » Post

Keine Ahnung wieso, aber alle meine Schieber sind auf einmal aus. Einiger meiner Farmen sind dadurch kaputt

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Es gab vor 14 Tagen in der Tat ein Problem mit den Schiebern.
Schalte die Schieber wieder ein, dann sollte das Problem behoben sein.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by debiankaios » Post

Es funktioniert zwar, aber ich bin mir sicher es gibt jetzt irgendwo schieber die Probleme machen.

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Preservoir wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 06:36
2. Oh, bugs
I have not reached TA5 yet. So far, remarks concern manual at most.
2.1. 'Lighter' is a specific craftable block. Not obvious, could be mentioned in manual.
2.2. Flint-and-steel must be used on lighter. Not obvious, could be mentioned in manual.
2.3. In manual Chemical Reactor plan, silo is at top and tank is at bottom. This position works for some recipes. For some other recipes vice versa: tank must be at top and silo must be at bottom. Manual contains no clue about this fact. I still don't know if it is a bug or a feature. Killed several hours to understand.
2.4. In manual Chemical Reactor plan, TA3 (not TA4) tank and silo are depicted. Though, such system is operable.
2.5. We could not make Elecrolyzer output anything, even together with server admin.
to 2.1) Description added
to 2.2) Description added
to 2.3) The manual has (and already had) the following description:
The plan on the left shows only one possible variant, since the arrangement of the silos and tanks depends on the recipe.
Any hints how this can be improved further?
to 2.4) Changed (see below)
to 2.5) This was a bug/gap in the description. I added the following
The electrolyzer has a wrench menu for setting the current consumption and the switch-off point.
If the power stored in the power grid falls below the specified value of the switch-off point, the electrolyzer switches off automatically. This prevents the storage systems from running empty.
So, change the value to lets say 40%, and the electrolyzer starts operating.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Preservoir » Post

joe7575 wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 13:59
Preservoir wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 06:36
2.3. In manual Chemical Reactor plan, silo is at top and tank is at bottom. This position works for some recipes. For some other recipes vice versa: tank must be at top and silo must be at bottom. Manual contains no clue about this fact. I still don't know if it is a bug or a feature. Killed several hours to understand.
to 2.3) The manual has (and already had) the following description:
the arrangement of the silos and tanks depends on the recipe.
Any hints how this can be improved further?
How exactly position depends on the recipe? Recipe itself says nothing about position.
What I thought initially? That tank must be up or down, and silo must be down or up, and that all depends on liquidity of output.
What I found out finally? That 'primary' product comes out of upper (blue) stand, no matter is it liquid or solid. If we expect gibbsite powder to come out of bauxite powder, we must connect top (blue) stand to silo (and lower gray stand to tank for red mud). If we expect gasoline to come out of naphtha, we must connect upper blue stand to tank.
A couple of words about 'primary' product could be helpful in manual.

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage] - Of Isobutane

by Preservoir » Post

Isobutane is necessary for Collider and Fusion Reactor.
Normal amount is 250+350=600.
If a player has to (re)move say 1 block (I had "defect magnet" reports and tried to replace them), that will lead to depressurization of the facility -> 600 more isobutane needed.
If a player makes any other mistake (I made), player pays the same huge price. Let's say common player needs 3 attempts = 3*600 = 1800 isobutane before the TA5 energy system is on.
Isobutane~=Propane. 1 propane = 5 crude oil. 1800 propane = 1800*5 = 9000 crude oil = 1...3 oilfields drained.
Propane cannot be transported by hand. Oil (and gasoline) can. Generally, if someone wants to move propane, needs to build a pipeline or railroad across the map, with forceload blocks here and there. It might be interesting in single, but on PVP server such artery becomes The Great Train Robbery contest, never ending. Not a choice.
There is no recipe for propane, except crude oil refining.
Chemical Reactor has recipes to increase fraction e.g. fuel oil->gasoline. But has no recipe for cracking into propane.
I had finished TA4 using very few items of oil products. Oil products are not essential in most TA recipes. I had 5 tanks with 1000+ oil products in each, including propane, standing useless in Arctic mountains where sun- or wind-based electricity is impossible. I had to abandon my base and start new one in a biome with 50+ temperature near sea, carry my oil stock by hand in barrels (because of 200-blocks pipe limit), seek for more oil, pump and refine - all from the start.
Why not burn oil & products in Arctic? 1. I cannot be sure if 11000 oil will be enough for many hours of collider operation, not considering other electricity-consuming activities. Suppose even you will have hard time calculating ku-hours of collider consumption vs ku-hours generated by 1 oilfield. 2. Burning oil products in furnace is so disgusting that I didn't want to do that even in game.
Another my mistake not related directly to isobutane issue, was placing collider >200 blocks far from the (new) base. That caused another pack of logistic troubles.
All in all, my impression of isobutane is: a gameplay-breaking headache, at least at survival server.
Proposals, and/or:
1. Add recipe for Chemical Reactor: Gasoline + catalyst = Propane.
2. Add inventory place-able propane (x10...x100) cylinder(s).

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage] - Of Isobutane

by joe7575 » Post

Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
If a player has to (re)move say 1 block (I had "defect magnet" reports and tried to replace them), that will lead to depressurization of the facility -> 600 more isobutane needed.
No, you will lose only 10 units of isobutane per removed block
Pro tip: You can pump out the isobutane before you disassemble the collider.
Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
Propane cannot be transported by hand. Oil (and gasoline) can.
I don't understand. For both you have containers with 1 and 10 units. What is the difference?
isobutane.png
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Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
Generally, if someone wants to move propane, needs to build a pipeline or railroad across the map, with forceload blocks here and there. It might be interesting in single, but on PVP server such artery becomes The Great Train Robbery contest, never ending. Not a choice.
This is one of the challenges that is quite intentional :)
This can also be avoided with a bit of planning
Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
There is no recipe for propane, except crude oil refining.
Chemical Reactor has recipes to increase fraction e.g. fuel oil->gasoline. But has no recipe for cracking into propane.
Thanks for the hint, I changed it.
Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
Why not burn oil & products in Arctic? 1. I cannot be sure if 11000 oil will be enough for many hours of collider operation, not considering other electricity-consuming activities. Suppose even you will have hard time calculating ku-hours of collider consumption vs ku-hours generated by 1 oilfield. 2. Burning oil products in furnace is so disgusting that I didn't want to do that even in game.
It's okay to burn oil, it's just a game :)
But why do you place your collider in an arctic biome? Nobody would do that in real life. But you still can find another oil well.
Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
1. Add recipe for Chemical Reactor: Gasoline + catalyst = Propane.
2. Add inventory place-able propane (x10...x100) cylinder(s).
to 1.) done
to 2.) still don't understand
Last edited by joe7575 on Tue Oct 18, 2022 14:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 15:44
What I found out finally? That 'primary' product comes out of upper (blue) stand, no matter is it liquid or solid. If we expect gibbsite powder to come out of bauxite powder, we must connect top (blue) stand to silo (and lower gray stand to tank for red mud). If we expect gasoline to come out of naphtha, we must connect upper blue stand to tank.
A couple of words about 'primary' product could be helpful in manual.
Thanks for your response. I will change that.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage] - Of Isobutane

by Blockhead » Post

Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
Propane cannot be transported by hand. Oil (and gasoline) can. Generally, if someone wants to move propane, needs to build a pipeline or railroad across the map, with forceload blocks here and there. It might be interesting in single, but on PVP server such artery becomes The Great Train Robbery contest, never ending. Not a choice.
If you load the oil into containers you can put those into an advtrains wagon and that will travel through unloaded blocks without any forceloads. I think the train loading/unloading even works without a separate forceloader block because it forceloads the chests (I think). In future advtrains will hopefully support fluid wagons as well to avoid the container step (just like Factorio used to have barrels of oil loaded into normal wagons before implementing fluid wagons). The great train robbery on a PvP server with trains sounds like barrels of fun too (har har).

Edit: AdvTrains now has fluid wagon support for techage!
Last edited by Blockhead on Fri Jul 28, 2023 16:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage] - Of Isobutane

by joe7575 » Post

Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
It might be interesting in single, but on PVP server such artery becomes The Great Train Robbery contest, never ending.
To make that clear: You can't stop a foreign cart and you can't take items from a foreign cart. But you have to protect your tracks. This can be done with the minecart Land Marks or any other protection mod.
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage] - Of Isobutane

by Preservoir » Post

Thanks for your feedback joe7575 and Blockhead.
Generally I understand now that I was craving for too short/easy ways :)
joe7575 wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:02
Preservoir wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 16:08
Propane cannot be transported by hand. Oil (and gasoline) can.
I don't understand. For both you have containers with 1 and 10 units. What is the difference?
isobutane.png
At Archtec server there is no recipe to craft any gas cylinder. Recipes to craft barrels and canisters are available. I'm confused if it's admin's drawback, or gas cylinder is created automatically after some process? Sorry if it's not your concern. If cylinder is craftable, can you please prompt the initial recipe?
joe7575 wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:02
But why do you place your collider in an arctic biome? Nobody would do that in real life.
Honestly, there was a free land plot with nice 0,0,0 coordinates :) I've studied nothing about biome temperature before reaching TA4. This is not a complaint, more just sharing about challenging gameplay experience.

Now counting experience points, 40/60 :)

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Please check again, the recipes are nothing special

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Nik09 » Post

I'll check the Archtec systems

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by Nik09 » Post

Everything is available, I would say no issue

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by debiankaios » Post

If you dig bauxit (and at my mod uraninite too) with hammer there will not place their gravel but normal gravel

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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by joe7575 » Post

Bauxite bug is fixed.
For your items, you have to register the gravel:

Code: Select all

techage.register_stone_gravel_pair(stone_name, gravel_name)
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Re: [Mod] Tech Age [techage]

by debiankaios » Post

Ok, thankyou. But how to sieve only special things out? I looked, seems not to work to time. Until now you can only sieve normal gravel and basalt gravel. But if you have a own sort you can't sieve it, and i want special outputs

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