minetest common?

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jojoa1997
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minetest common?

by jojoa1997 » Post

I checked github and saw some commits celeron made to this https://github.com/minetest could someone explain. I'm talking to you celeron and devs.
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by 0gb.us » Post

According to IRC, they want to set up a system where plugins can exist in multiple games without needing a separate copy for each game. I've been wanting something like that for ages. Anyway, they are putting the plugins for this in games/common, and there may be some sort of config file in the other games that tells which common plugins to include.

EDIT: It looks like the option is being added to the existing game.conf.
Last edited by 0gb.us on Thu Mar 21, 2013 21:36, edited 1 time in total.

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by prestidigitator » Post

game.conf has a configuration variable listing these mods. I'm really not sure why minetest_game should be maintained if choosing the mods could just be accomplished in a server configuration file, honestly. I'm all for the ability to share mods between games and worlds without requiring they use EVERYTHING (in other words, have an explicit list and/or a way to trim), but it doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO to put the default configuration file in a repository of its own, essentially. So I wish they had just ranamed the existing repo. This just seems like a very good way to lose version history, which is a bad thing. I already added a comment to that effect on the new repo in GitHub.

(Of course, you can reuse things on Linux without copying by using symlinks, but nevermind....)
Last edited by prestidigitator on Thu Mar 21, 2013 21:53, edited 1 time in total.

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by 0gb.us » Post

prestidigitator wrote:game.conf has a configuration variable listing these mods. I'm really not sure why minetest_game should be maintained if choosing the mods could just be accomplished in a server configuration file, honestly. I'm all for the ability to share mods between games and worlds without requiring they use EVERYTHING (in other words, have an explicit list and/or a way to trim), but it doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO to put the default configuration file in a repository of its own, essentially. So I wish they had just ranamed the existing repo. This just seems like a very good way to lose version history, which is a bad thing. I already added a comment to that effect on the new repo in GitHub.

(Of course, you can reuse things on Linux without copying by using symlinks, but nevermind....)
I do the symbolic link thing all the time, but it doesn't work well when trying to post your own game for download.

I also noticed that minetest_game still has some exclusive plugins. Legacy is particularly odd to not have in common, as without some of the aliases defined in legacy, sapling growth and (dirt_with_)grass growth and death quit working.

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by Casimir » Post

I really like the change. This finally is something that makes making games worth the work. There will be a lot of games spreading after the next release. And I think thats minetests great possibility, not to be one game, but enable you to play the way you like.

edit:
Now minetest_game is pretty useless, so I would suggest moving some of the things added after 0.4.5 that lead to the big discussion here to a mod named minetest_game in minetest_game.
Last edited by Casimir on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:03, edited 1 time in total.

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by rubenwardy » Post

Casimir wrote:I really like the change. This finally is something that makes making games worth the work. There will be a lot of games spreading after the next release. And I think thats minetests great possibility, not to be one game, but enable you to play the way you like.

edit:
Now minetest_game is pretty useless, so I would suggest moving some of the things added after 0.4.5 that lead to the big discussion here to a mod named minetest_game in minetest_game.
Ie: mese to crystal changes

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by jojoa1997 » Post

Yeah I say add more things to commons like dyes and wool and creative. Now kaeza's survival mod can be added for default but it can easily be made into a survival_game
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by 0gb.us » Post

jojoa1997 wrote:Yeah I say add more things to commons like dyes and wool and creative. Now kaeza's survival mod can be added for default but it can easily be made into a survival_game
Legacy is vital to sapling and dirt_with_grass growth, so all games will need that. It should be moved as well. Personally, I'd also like to see give_initial_stuff moved.

In all honesty though, I think the best system would be to have all plugins used by games be placed in common, and have them linked to via the game.conf file. In that way, game directories would become nothing but a directory with a conf file, but reuse would be high.
Last edited by 0gb.us on Fri Mar 22, 2013 15:54, edited 1 time in total.

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by jojoa1997 » Post

Yes that would be easier and adding more mods to confirm would be easily more accepted
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by ds-2k » Post

0gb.us wrote: Legacy is vital to sapling and dirt_with_grass growth, so all games will need that. It should be moved as well.
The growth of dirt_with_grass still works because the engine uses mapgen_dirt_with_grass (aliased to default:dirt_with_grass in mapgen.lua in default), but you are correct about the sapling growth (for normal trees, not jungle trees). Pull request submitted for sapling alias: https://github.com/minetest/common/pull/3

Using an alias in default like the jungle sapling allows games to avoid depending on legacy (which is only for importing old 0.3/0.4dev maps).

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by 0gb.us » Post

ds-2k wrote:
0gb.us wrote: Legacy is vital to sapling and dirt_with_grass growth, so all games will need that. It should be moved as well.
The growth of dirt_with_grass still works because the engine uses mapgen_dirt_with_grass (aliased to default:dirt_with_grass in mapgen.lua in default), but you are correct about the sapling growth (for normal trees, not jungle trees). Pull request submitted for sapling alias: https://github.com/minetest/common/pull/3

Using an alias in default like the jungle sapling allows games to avoid depending on legacy (which is only for importing old 0.3/0.4dev maps).
When I deleted legacy in 0.4.3, grass stopped growing and dying. Unless it has been fixed since then, it uses the dirt and dirt_with_grass aliases, NOT the mapgen_dirt and mapgen_dirt_with_grass aliases.
Last edited by 0gb.us on Fri Mar 22, 2013 18:54, edited 1 time in total.

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by ds-2k » Post

0gb.us wrote: When I deleted legacy in 0.4.3, grass stopped growing and dying. Unless it has been fixed since then, it uses the dirt and dirt_with_grass aliases, NOT the mapgen_dirt and mapgen_dirt_with_grass aliases.
The aliases for grass/dirt were fixed in:
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/co ... ad728fef4f
and
github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/bc879a1453561259b69c9a6602f97062b710235d
(The forum only lets me post one link at a time)

Therefore, this is fixed in 0.4.5 stable but not 0.4.4.

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by 0gb.us » Post

ds-2k wrote:
0gb.us wrote: When I deleted legacy in 0.4.3, grass stopped growing and dying. Unless it has been fixed since then, it uses the dirt and dirt_with_grass aliases, NOT the mapgen_dirt and mapgen_dirt_with_grass aliases.
The aliases for grass/dirt were fixed in:
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/co ... ad728fef4f
and
github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/bc879a1453561259b69c9a6602f97062b710235d
(The forum only lets me post one link at a time)

Therefore, this is fixed in 0.4.5 stable but not 0.4.4.
Awesome! So once your pull request is accepted, legacy will truly only be legacy compatibility.

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by prestidigitator » Post

0gb.us wrote:
jojoa1997 wrote:Yeah I say add more things to commons like dyes and wool and creative[....]
Legacy is vital[....]

In all honesty though, I think the best system would be to have all plugins used by games be placed in common, and have them linked to via the game.conf file. In that way, game directories would become nothing but a directory with a conf file, but reuse would be high.
Exactly what I thought the first time I saw this in Git. Then the question arises...what is left in minetest_game? A single game.conf file? If so, what the heck is it still doing as its own repository? In other words, I think the addition of a common directory and a list in the server or game config file is a great change, but the actual repository split is a bit silly. Should have just renamed minetest_game and kept the version history.
Last edited by prestidigitator on Fri Mar 22, 2013 19:45, edited 1 time in total.

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by jojoa1997 » Post

minetest_game has other stuff like dyes, wool, creative and so on
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by prestidigitator » Post

jojoa1997 wrote:minetest_game has other stuff like dyes, wool, creative and so on
Why? If it's an "official" mod, why not put it in the common area and just not include it in the default list of common mods to use. This allows any custom game to use them easily.

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by Casimir » Post

At the moment we have
- common
- minetest_game
- build
- survival
The last tree games are (nearly) empty, and all the new things get added to common. So why the change then? It's useless, we could rename commons to minetest_game and nothing would have changed.

So here my proposal:
For now we don't need survival and build, the bones mod and infinite lava are so minimal additions that they are not worth to use a different game for that. If you want the bones mod, you just install the bones mod. Downloading and installing the survival game just makes it more complicated. One reason for new things being added to commons, not to minetest_game might be that they also appear in build and survival. Therefor:
1. Remove the build and survival games.

Obsidian, gold, diamonds, copper, bronze. I don't care why, but I don't need them. And when you want to make a game and don't want those to be in there, then you have to copy the whole default-mod to your game and delete those ores. We have common and we have minetest_game. Why not take the advantage this gives you? I mean that thing that one of the reasons common was created for.
I understand those who say that the standard game need more contend, more things to do and more ores to mine for. And please do it, add more interesting things and more challenges and more nodes to build with. But at the same time take the advantage the games system gives us. Move all the extra things to minetest_game. Use it as a platform for experiments. When things are added to common then it has a huge effect one a lot of games, so it will always be discussed very much. On minetest_game we can add and remove a lot of things very uncomplicated, because no only a few things depend on it. Therefor:
2. Move a lot of things that where added after the 0.4.5 release from common to minetest_game. (What things in particular is to be discussed.) And use minetest_game as a platform for experiments, while keep commons as a very basic common thing. Move things that have done well in minetest_game to commons when there is a wide support for that change and a need to have it as a base for other games.

3. Improve support for games. (For example add a description shown when selecting games.)
Casimir wrote:And I think thats minetests great possibility, not to be one game, but enable you to play the way you like.

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by 0gb.us » Post

prestidigitator wrote:
jojoa1997 wrote:minetest_game has other stuff like dyes, wool, creative and so on
Why? If it's an "official" mod, why not put it in the common area and just not include it in the default list of common mods to use. This allows any custom game to use them easily.
I agree. Everything official should be in common, where custom games can use it.

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by jojoa1997 » Post

Casimir wrote:At the moment we have
- common
- minetest_game
- build
- survival
The last tree games are (nearly) empty, and all the new things get added to common. So why the change then? It's useless, we could rename commons to minetest_game and nothing would have changed.

So here my proposal:
For now we don't need survival and build, the bones mod and infinite lava are so minimal additions that they are not worth to use a different game for that. If you want the bones mod, you just install the bones mod. Downloading and installing the survival game just makes it more complicated. One reason for new things being added to commons, not to minetest_game might be that they also appear in build and survival. Therefor:
1. Remove the build and survival games.

Obsidian, gold, diamonds, copper, bronze. I don't care why, but I don't need them. And when you want to make a game and don't want those to be in there, then you have to copy the whole default-mod to your game and delete those ores. We have common and we have minetest_game. Why not take the advantage this gives you? I mean that thing that one of the reasons common was created for.
I understand those who say that the standard game need more contend, more things to do and more ores to mine for. And please do it, add more interesting things and more challenges and more nodes to build with. But at the same time take the advantage the games system gives us. Move all the extra things to minetest_game. Use it as a platform for experiments. When things are added to common then it has a huge effect one a lot of games, so it will always be discussed very much. On minetest_game we can add and remove a lot of things very uncomplicated, because no only a few things depend on it. Therefor:
2. Move a lot of things that where added after the 0.4.5 release from common to minetest_game. (What things in particular is to be discussed.) And use minetest_game as a platform for experiments, while keep commons as a very basic common thing. Move things that have done well in minetest_game to commons when there is a wide support for that change and a need to have it as a base for other games.

3. Improve support for games. (For example add a description shown when selecting games.)
Casimir wrote:And I think thats minetests great possibility, not to be one game, but enable you to play the way you like.
later there will be more stuff. Don't forget that stuff was made recently. Build is making building easier. Survival makes survival tougher. There should be a multiplayer one with protection stuff and maybe PvP stuff. Minetest_game is then vanilla game.
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