Redcrab's server

[OldCoder]

Fixerol, thank you for commenting.

1. You listed mods and then said, "Looks like the same mods we use today, but updated, what is the problem with them?"

The issue is just as you said: "Updated". We don't have the sources for Redcrab's modset. Knowing the mod names isn't enough. We need to know the releases that he's using and obtain the sources for those releases.

It's important to have the right sources. Calinou, for example, has broken backwards compatibility for some of his mods. And some mods won't work with other mods if any of the sources are too old or too new.

Additionally, I'm told that Redcrab may have made changes to mods or added mods of his own. If this is so, we wouldn't be able to reproduce changes or new mods exactly, but experienced Redcrab users might be able to offer insights.

2. You asked, "What kind of assistance?" These are the tasks involved:

* Reconstruct Redcrab's modset or persuade him to provide a copy
* Do updated captures of the map (unless he will turn over a copy)
* Try the reconstructed world and suggest bug fixes
* Possibly help to adapt the world for use with the latest engine (this part needs discussion)

That's about it.

From Sokomine, in particular, we'd need a tree fix that she's made before. I might be able to get this from Silvercrab. Note: Silvercrab is a copy of Redcrab, but it differs from the original world due to the modset issue.

[Sokomine]

From Sokomine, in particular, we'd need a tree fix that she's made before. I might be able to get this from Silvercrab.

AFAIK that wasn't something spectacular. Just the abm to grow them and the tree growing code from a (at the time of the creation of SilverCrab) recent minetest_game.

The biggest problem with reproducing Redcrabs modset is the moreblocks mod which did change a lot. Node names and textures just aren't the same anymore. Worlds that have been updated regulary received updates through ABMs inside moreblocks that turned them into newer versions; but Redcrabs world is still the same.

[Fixer]

Thanks for explanation, so you want to make RC copy on 0.4.13 with newest mods with looks exactly like in old redcrab server? I wonder if it is possible to make a list of all custom blocks on redcrab, and convert them to new if compatibility was broken (and replace new textures for custom blocks, with old ones used on RC).

I see Sokomine even has a redcrab modpack: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7537

[Fixer]

Redcrabs modset is the moreblocks mod which did change a lot. Node names and textures just aren't the same anymore.

So convert old nodes to new closest looking ones and replace with old textures :D

[Sokomine]

Thanks for explanation, so you want to make RC copy on 0.4.13 with newest mods with looks exactly like in old redcrab server? I wonder if it is possible to make a list of all custom blocks on redcrab, and convert them to new if compatibility was broken (and replace new textures for custom blocks, with old ones used on RC).

That's the general approach - at least for the few nodes that where actually changed. In some cases it's tricky to find out old and new node names (as in moreblocks which just happens to include quite a lot of nodes).

I see Sokomine even has a redcrab modpack: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7537

Yes, I created that some time ago. It was intended to enable players to enjoy their local copy of Redcrabs server with a fitting modset. Since then, minetest_game has developed even further. Plus the subgame I created in order to emulate Redcrabs server never included the server-specific parts. It doesn't even let trees grow (which is not needed in a copy that's intended to be static).

[OldCoder]

Fixerol, Sokomine has addressed most points.

I'll add that if the old modset can be identified, or if Redcrab will provide a copy, there is not necessarily a need to convert blocks forward.

Ideally, the modset would be patched just enough to work with a newer engine without the loss of old block types. I don't know if this is possible.

[Fixer]

I can help with map capturing, but I'm not sure how to do it efficiently. While I was in first ten requestors for building rights on redcrab I rarely played on it, but I remember the beginning :)

[OldCoder]

Fixerol, all right.

If you're able to contact somebody named rob65535 or 65535, who may have posted to this thread, this will simplify things. I believe he runs a bot that does large-scale captures of the world. He may have the entire map.

Otherwise, if you and others turn on captures and visit important areas in the world, pieces of the map will be collected on your hard disk and later you can share them.

The configuration-file setting for this is:

Code: Select all

enable_local_map_saving = true

You should probably have this turned on only when you visit Redcrab. Otherwise, Minetest will save every world that you visit, which will take up a fair amount of disk space.

[OldCoder]

Feel free to visit OldCoder Redcrab, my attempt to produce a reasonably accurate copy of the original Redcrab.

The new world isn't perfect, but it came out well for a first attempt. If the original Redcrab shuts down, much of the past work done there will now be preserved.

Silvercrab also contains the Redcrab buildings, but the new world has a modset that matches better and looks more like the original. We're missing mostly a few of the nodes from moreblocks.

Location:

Code: Select all

Server: minetest.org
Port:   30006

Key points:

* You can use current Minetest clients to connect without special measures
* Interact is turned off for now, but fly, noclip, and settime are turned on
* You'll see unknown blocks, but most will convert automatically as you approach them
* This copy has most of the original Redcrab map as of October 2014
* mapgen is turned off for now, so the world has limits
* Don't ask for interact here. See me in IRC or email me.

Problems:
* There are missing pieces where captures are incomplete. You can help by making new captures.
* The missing pieces are creating lava and water flows. Those will need to be cleaned up.
* Travelnet stations work, but there are two problems (see below)
* Some moreblocks nodes are incorrect
* Trees probably don't grow yet. So, don't cut them down.
* If you'd like the worldedit priv to help with repairs, see me in IRC.

You can only use travelnets by clicking from outside or on the inside ceilings or floors. I'll need help from Sokomine or others to fix the problem.

Additionally, some travelnet stations are missing. After the travelnet display problem is fixed, people are invited to add the missing stations.

Credits:

The map is based on captures by Sokomine, Rob65535, and ShadowNinja. The captures were spliced together using a Perl script written by myself. Amaz assisted with a mapgen-related problem.

The modset is based on work by Manzano, Sokomine, and myself. As expected, moreblocks didn't come out quite right and more work will be needed.

Fixerol has made repairs. Redcrab, of course, deserves credit for creating the original world. And Erthome helped with various issues in 2014.

Future:

It remains to be determined whether this will be a museum world or old players will build here. Note: This world will not be opened for builds to the general public.

If people would like to have mapgen turned on, technical issues related to changes between 0.4.4 and git-current may need to be worked out.

[Fixer]

Hmm, I and Par got interact, canwarp, fly and other privileges, are you sure it is ok? I can place and remove blocks (and other people too, probably).
Spawn was missing two blocks under me (fixed with brickstone).
My walking speed is very fast (fast is disabled).
Don't see areas mod (world is unprotected I guess).
Sokomine's travelbox near spawn has no destinations.
If you don't mind I will clean up sand and gravel from roads and houses/shops.

// looking great so far, good job

[OldCoder]

Fixerol, Hi. Regarding OldCoder Redcrab:

1. Default interact was a mistake. I've turned it off. However, you have all privs now, including worldedit, for repair purposes.

2. Fast, fly, and noclip are turned on for everybody as this is a museum world for the time being. If it becomes a build world, we can turn off some of these privs.

3. The areas mod has been added, but there is no protection information yet. So, we should grant interact only to trusted existing players.

4. The travelnet network is working now. However, there is a bug. You can only use the travelnets by clicking from outside or on the inside ceilings or floors. I'll need help from Sokomine or others to fix the problem.

Some travelnet stations are missing. After the travelnet display problem is fixed, you're invited to add the missing stations.

5. Make any repairs that you like. If you like this copy of the map, we'll keep it.

6. This world is not presently for building. If anybody is granted interact, they should focus on repairs. As a related important note, trees probably do not grow yet. Therefore, trees should not be cut down.

Sokomine: I need a copy of the tree fix in case this does become a build world. I have trees code from Silvercrab, but I'd like to talk to you before using it in the new world.

The only serious bug right now seems to be the travelnet display issue. If people can help with this, it will be appreciated. New captures of the old world will also be useful.

[Fixer]

Thanks for your response.

Make any repairs that you like. If you like this copy of the map, we'll keep it.

You said lava and water needs clean up, but if it looks cool on a terrain, we can leave it like that? Another question is 1x1 block towers not far from spawn, I'm not sure if it was intended or not, I don't like them.

Also, I will fire up both RedCrab and your RedCrab and compare if something is missing, but it looks very nice already and just like 0.4.4 (I have not looked at everything), few screenshots of the spawn on 0.4.4 RC and 0.4.13 RC: https://i.imgur.com/YsZHKok.png and https://i.imgur.com/jwzuQic.png

I will fix 1x1 towers, sand and gravel on roads and inside shops and houses etc.

On travelnets: I will wait before this bug fixed.

[OldCoder]

Fixerol, to respond:

1. In cases where lava and water issues are not large or spreading, yes, use your own judgment.

2. By 1x1 towers, do you mean the floating thin spikes that are not attached to anything? If they don't seem to belong, remove them.

3. If you need wood, don't cut down trees. Remember that replacements may not grow. Instead, give yourself needed supplies; you have the privs for this.

4. The travelnets display bug seems to be the only major issue. Hopefully, Sokomine or others will comment.

5. If you do notice missing buildings that you'd like to copy over, go to the old world with captures turned on and visit the buildings, including rooftops and basements. The data will then be captured to your hard disk and can subsequently be used in the new world.

[OldCoder]

Discussion of OldCoder Redcrab, my clone of the original world, has moved to:

https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13331

[Erthome]

Redcrab Server -- Original -- does not appear to be accepting connections at the moment.

[redcrab]

Redcrab Server -- Original -- does not appear to be accepting connections at the moment.

Thanks for your notification.
The server is back.
Sorry for the delay.

[kaadmy]

@redcrab is back after 8+ months ;)

[Erthome]

LOL @ kaadmy, a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor there?

Not to quibble, but for the sake of any Sheldonites out there, it was down for three weeks.

[ShadowNinja]

The server is back.

Considering that you often disappear for several months, would you consider making the full world available for download, including player files and perhaps the authentication file?
Others have used local map saving to capture parts of your world and hosted it, but they haven't been able to capture the whole thing.
Also, unless you will be much more available from now on, it may be better if you shut down the server and instead directed players to a copy hosted by someone else that is more available.

[Dragonop]

including player files and perhaps the authentication file?

The authentication file? Sounds like a bad idea...

[ShadowNinja]

The authentication file? Sounds like a bad idea...

The passwords are hashed. The hash isn't particularly secure (SHA-1 with player name salt), but nobody should be using passwords they care about with MT anyways. It may be a good idea to not release the auth file publicly, but only give it to one other person for hosting purposes.

[Dragonop]

but nobody should be using passwords they care about with MT anyways..

Yeah, they shouldn't, but most of them are.

[Erthome]

Sharing the authentication file is not just ill-advised but arguably criminal. Saying that user's shouldn't use a password they care about because they should anticipate that some years later the entire list will be shared with someone who has no regard for the privacy of the players in the file is a disrespectful and circular argument. If it were my server THAT request would be out of the question. Bear in mind that since this server, unlike any others I've visited, has provided for self request of rights via the email registration--which we can safely assume constitute a one to one correspondence with accounts created since that custom mod was introduced and thus directly identifies user names to passwords to emails--the risk is even higher, and provisions would have to be made to deidentify this data as well.

I am somewhat amazed at the audacity of people in this gaming community who have happily accepted the gift of many years of free access to the redcrab server, who have railed against it's owner for periodically being inaccessible, and believe they are within their right to repeatedly pretend they have any justifiable basis to coerce the owner into handing over the fruit of the resources he's invested in terms of his own time, server space, net bandwidth, all the while politely overlooking the childish, self-entitled attempts at unjustified coercion and whiny ill will.

Listen folks, OldCoder, who has also been extremely generous to our user community, has made several valiant efforts to provide updated server platforms while seeding the new worlds with the majority of visible work from the redcrab world...If you have cherished construction on the redcrab server that you find missing on those servers, launch your recording version of the client and go grab what you want from the redcrab server, and ask OldCoder if he will help add it to the world--be polite and patient--to the extent of his available time he has already done this for many of us.

Instead of attempting to make others do your bidding, and fuel your own questionable agendas, chip in and be a part of the efforts aimed at a modernized version of the redcrab world, and continue to enjoy both the original world amd as many of the flavors of the original redcrab world as you like.

[Siri]

Is there a download somewhere for this map?

[Fixer]

No