Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
- Linuxdirk
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Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
What I noticed with the new release is that leaves decay is finally pretty fast and takes only a few seconds, which is very good.
But on the other hand when I create a tree farm (a checkerboard pattern of trees and torches) it takes the trees 3-5 ingame day/night cycles to start growing. Usually its only one tree after that time and another 2-3 ingame day/night cycles later there are only 4-5 out of 10-15 trees grown.
I tried with and witout mods. No difference. I noticed that in the previous release but I have a feeling that it now takes even longer for trees to grow.
But on the other hand when I create a tree farm (a checkerboard pattern of trees and torches) it takes the trees 3-5 ingame day/night cycles to start growing. Usually its only one tree after that time and another 2-3 ingame day/night cycles later there are only 4-5 out of 10-15 trees grown.
I tried with and witout mods. No difference. I noticed that in the previous release but I have a feeling that it now takes even longer for trees to grow.
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
It feels the same to me. Trees seem to take forever to grow. Their growth function was afaik changed to a static time. Perhaps something random and much smaller would be a better idea. Realism doesn't always work...we need tons of wood for our projects.
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
I planted some of the new bushes and it seems to take forever to grow
- paramat
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
The answer is yes. Sofar used a lot of maths to calculate the grow time.
Tree saplings grow in 40-80 mins, bushes half that.
The growth time used to be random between 0 and infinity, so some would grow immediately, giving the impression of fast growth. The average grow time is unchanged in the new method but now there is a minimum grow time (2 days).
Tree saplings grow in 40-80 mins, bushes half that.
The growth time used to be random between 0 and infinity, so some would grow immediately, giving the impression of fast growth. The average grow time is unchanged in the new method but now there is a minimum grow time (2 days).
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
WTF? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. 4 to 8 Minutes would be fine. But up to 80 realtime minutes (or never) for one tree ON PURPOSE? Why? Is there at least a way to change that (either by configuration or via mods)?paramat wrote:Tree saplings grow in 40-80 mins, bushes half that.
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
if the speed bothers you install bonemeal
ps if you really can't wait cg-decor but that has some problems in it's self
which I cant be arsed to get in to
ps if you really can't wait cg-decor but that has some problems in it's self
which I cant be arsed to get in to
Last edited by Chibi ghost on Sat Jun 10, 2017 19:51, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
I agree.Linuxdirk wrote:WTF? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. 4 to 8 Minutes would be fine. But up to 80 realtime minutes (or never) for one tree ON PURPOSE? Why?paramat wrote:Tree saplings grow in 40-80 mins, bushes half that.
I am okay with using the screenshots in all my posts for the website of Minetest (http://minetest.net).
- paramat
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
Tree growth is guaranteed within 80 mins, before, some saplings would take longer.Linuxdirk wrote:WTF? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. 4 to 8 Minutes would be fine. But up to 80 realtime minutes (or never) for one tree ON PURPOSE? Why? Is there at least a way to change that (either by configuration or via mods)?paramat wrote:Tree saplings grow in 40-80 mins, bushes half that.
As i wrote, sofar used complex statistical maths to calculate the time range equivalent to the old behaviour, you can study it yourself in the PR thread.
It is equivalent.
As i wrote, it only seems slower because there is a minimum grow time instead of an occasional tree growing almost immediately. 40-80 mins *sounds* too long to me too, but i trust sofar's maths.
- maikerumine
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
Yes, in the nodes lua, change the sapling time to a smaller number.Linuxdirk wrote:WTF? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. 4 to 8 Minutes would be fine. But up to 80 realtime minutes (or never) for one tree ON PURPOSE? Why? Is there at least a way to change that (either by configuration or via mods)?paramat wrote:Tree saplings grow in 40-80 mins, bushes half that.
Code: Select all
on_construct = function(pos)
minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(math.random(2400,4800))
end,
Code: Select all
minetest.register_lbm({
name = "default:convert_saplings_to_node_timer",
nodenames = {"default:sapling", "default:junglesapling",
"default:pine_sapling", "default:acacia_sapling",
"default:aspen_sapling"},
action = function(pos)
minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(math.random(1200, 2400))
end
})
I had to do this on a server.
Talamh Survival Minetest-->viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12959
- Linuxdirk
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
So it’s not only ridiculous slow but hardcoded, too? :(maikerumine wrote:Yes, in the nodes lua, change the sapling time to a smaller number.
- rnd
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
Well im not the one to blindly accept the "official reports" so .. challenge accepted.paramat wrote:Tree growth is guaranteed within 80 mins, before, some saplings would take longer.Linuxdirk wrote:WTF? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. 4 to 8 Minutes would be fine. But up to 80 realtime minutes (or never) for one tree ON PURPOSE? Why? Is there at least a way to change that (either by configuration or via mods)?paramat wrote:Tree saplings grow in 40-80 mins, bushes half that.
As i wrote, sofar used complex statistical maths to calculate the time range equivalent to the old behaviour, you can study it yourself in the PR thread.
It is equivalent.
As i wrote, it only seems slower because there is a minimum grow time instead of an occasional tree growing almost immediately. 40-80 mins *sounds* too long to me too, but i trust sofar's maths.
How do trees grow? Lets examine the code.
Code: Select all
At beginning when sapling placed timer starts ('uniformly' random time between 40 min and 80 minutes):
minetest.register_node("default:sapling", {
on_timer = default.grow_sapling,
on_construct = function(pos)
minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(math.random(2400,4800)) -- RND: 40-80 minutes
end,
and
And when timer reaches 0 tree attempts to grow:
function default.grow_sapling(pos)
if not default.can_grow(pos) then-- try a bit later again
minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(math.random(240, 600)) -- RND: 6-10 minutes
return
end
And if we go away and come back later this applies:
minetest.register_lbm({
name = "default:convert_saplings_to_node_timer",
nodenames = {"default:sapling", "default:junglesapling",
"default:pine_sapling", "default:acacia_sapling",
"default:aspen_sapling"},
action = function(pos)
minetest.get_node_timer(pos):start(math.random(1200, 2400)) -- RND: 20-40 minutes! this restarts timer to 0!
--documentation: start(timeout)` * start a timer * equivalent to `set(timeout,0)`
end
})
light level at sapling position is at least 13) tree will
simply grow randomly between 40-80 minutes. If not it retries to grow again after 6-10 minutes. Default server night time is 20 minutes = 1200s.
SO - seeing how torch light level is only 12, you obviously need to way for day or use better light source with at least 13( if there is one )
Lets do now this "complex statistical" analysis :
Code: Select all
-- Experimental determine of times when light crosses 13 (needed for tree growth)
-- morning time when you get light above 13: time = 0.244375 * 24000 = 5868 (minetest ingame time span 0-24000)
-- evening time when you no longer get light above 13: time = 0.755666 * 24000 = 18136
-- our time: first time with light 13 marks 0. So evening with light<13 is at (0.755666-0.244375)*2400 = 1227.0
--_G.minetest.set_timeofday(0.75);say(_G.minetest.get_node_light(self.pos()))
experiment = function()
local t = math.random(2400); -- random initial time of day (in cycle of 20+20=40 minutes)
t=t + math.random(2400,4800); -- initial time
local daynight = 2400; -- duration of day night
local nighttime = 1227;
if t % daynight< nighttime then -- daytime
return t,1; -- tree grown
end
local count = 1;
while count<1000 and not (t % daynight< nighttime) do -- time is not day, so repeat
count = count + 1;
t = t + math.random(240, 600); -- retry with another timer
-- note: no overflow occurs here since 64 bit double numbers are 1.8*10^19..
end
return t,count
end
local n = 1000000; -- repeat experiment with 1 million trees
local total = 0;
local data = {};
for i = 1,n do
local t, count = experiment();
local k = math.floor(t/1000); -- which 1/10th of 0-10000 results belong to
data[k] = (data[k] or 0) + 1;
total = total + t;
end
for k = 0, 10 do data[k] = 100*(data[k] or 0)/n end
say(" repeat " .. n .. " times. avg time " .. total/n .. " detailed distribution " .. string.gsub(_G.dump(data),"\n",""))
1. supose we plant tree at random time of day.
we see that average time to grow tree is 5202+1 s ~ 1.44 hours( 1 million trees analysed)
MORE DETAILS: how many % of trees grew in "slots" of 2000-3000,..., 9000-10000 seconds:
3.1%, 9.9%, 23.5%, 50.7% (=5000-6000),0.5%, 12.02%, 0 (= 8000-6000) ,0,0..
So yeah... its more like 83-100 minutes for 50% of trees...
2. suppose we plant tree at beginning of day at first good light
we get 4001+-1 s ~ 1.11 hrs
3. suppose we plant at evening.
5229+-1 s ~ 1.45 hrs
2. Assume we go immediately away so that the block containing sapling unloads and then come back later - so block loads again.
Now we only need to wait randomly between 20-40 minutes! so if you have a good artificial light source available this is superior strategy.
1EvCmxbzl5KDu6XAunE1K853Lq6VVOsT
Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
I think the randomness should be biased and growth time shorter. Or just the latter.
- paramat
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
Hmm perhaps the light check should be a check for the light in daytime, real plants continue to grow at night. Otherwise anyone using a very slow time speed (like me) will have delayed growth, and everyone will have growth delayed due to night.
- azekill_DIABLO
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
that means for someone who plays 10 minutes a day in solo: a full week or even more to get trees?Linuxdirk wrote:WTF? Sorry, but this is ridiculous. 4 to 8 Minutes would be fine. But up to 80 realtime minutes (or never) for one tree ON PURPOSE? Why? Is there at least a way to change that (either by configuration or via mods)?paramat wrote:Tree saplings grow in 40-80 mins, bushes half that.
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
I usually plant trees in my tree farm and go to a safe location and leave the game running on another desktop while I do something else for 1-2 hours before coming back (even then most of the trees are not grown).azekill_DIABLO wrote:that means for someone who plays 10 minutes a day in solo: a full week or even more to get trees?
It's so annoying I want to create a fertilizer mod allowing to grow trees instantly (like Miecraft's bone meal).
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
tenplus1 did a good one
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
I say halve the time and chive on.
Talamh Survival Minetest-->viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12959
- Linuxdirk
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
Jep, just found it :)azekill_DIABLO wrote:tenplus1 did a good one
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
just chopped down all my default trees for the leafs and trunk to make more trees
the cycle never ends
the cycle never ends
- paramat
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
rnd we can certainly consider reducing the nodetimer time, could you look at the old ABM method and try to calculate what would be equivalent using the nodetimer method? The ABM method also relied on light 13 to enable growth.
See the PR thread for sofar's calculations https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/870
See the PR thread for sofar's calculations https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/870
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
rnd,
> And if we go away and come back later this applies:
minetest.register_lbm({
name = "default:convert_saplings_to_node_timer",
No that's a conversion for old non-timer saplings to add a timer to them, that was only run once per mapblock when a world updated to the timer system. So you can ignore that LBM.
> And if we go away and come back later this applies:
minetest.register_lbm({
name = "default:convert_saplings_to_node_timer",
No that's a conversion for old non-timer saplings to add a timer to them, that was only run once per mapblock when a world updated to the timer system. So you can ignore that LBM.
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
See my test, you were right https://github.com/minetest/minetest_ga ... -313094113
Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
Saplings should grow much faster now, https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1818
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
I remember when the just test server came back online in April, lag was using the latest version of Minetest with the new growth code. At first everybody (myself included) thought the saplings were sterile. A couple of us even broke down into prayer xD.
It was frustrating, to say the least. I only hope that this unbearably slow rate was unintentional. After all, most people don't have hours to idle away while harvesting their tree farms. A moderate 20-30 minutes is more than sufficient.
On a sidenote, I have to wonder how many of the core devs actually play Minetest on a regular basis, because some of the recent updates (in 0.4.15 particularly) just make little sense, at least from a player perspective.
It was frustrating, to say the least. I only hope that this unbearably slow rate was unintentional. After all, most people don't have hours to idle away while harvesting their tree farms. A moderate 20-30 minutes is more than sufficient.
On a sidenote, I have to wonder how many of the core devs actually play Minetest on a regular basis, because some of the recent updates (in 0.4.15 particularly) just make little sense, at least from a player perspective.
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Re: Is the slow speed of trees to grow on purpose?
None, I guess.sorcerykid wrote:On a sidenote, I have to wonder how many of the core devs actually play Minetest on a regular basis, …
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