[Game] The End [alpha v1.0.4]

Eran
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[Game] The End [alpha v1.0.4]

by Eran » Sat Aug 31, 2019 14:17

Image

Infinite hordes have come to bring the apocalypse upon the dwarves! As some of the last ones remaining, you are on your own to make your death as expensive as possible.


The End is a fast paced apocalyptic horde fighting/castle defending game featuring
  • Apocalyptic hordes
  • Combat using the new player velocity api, inspired by Dwarves vs Zombies
  • Custom crafting stations: Anvil, Saw, Kiln, Mortar and Pestle
  • Support for custom built maps that can be destroyed and regenerated over and over again by reloading
  • A custom dwarf player model
  • Absence of the default mod
  • Full translatability and a ready made German translation


Gameplay
At the start of the game, the dwarves are in a small cave in a mountainside full of resources to dig up. Until dawn their position should be fortified with walls and their bags filled up with the stone cake for healing.
Because once it gets dark, the first waves of monsters arrive. At the beginning they are few but in future nights their numbers grow. To prepare for these hordes, the dwarves will have to craft more torches, reinforced walls, stone cake and mortar to repair the existing walls. In addition an anvil is necessary to repair tools and weapons.

Crafting
Crafting is done using rubenwardy's crafting mod and four custom, formspecless crafting stations:
  • Anvil: Repairs broken tools
  • Saw: Saws wood (or ironwood) to planks and planks to sticks
  • Mortar and Pestle: Grinds cobble into mortar which is useful for repairing and crafting walls
  • Kiln: fueld with coal, used to cook and smelt things

Even though the game contains a simple smelting guide now I'll keep the list of the most important recipes here.
  • Iron, gold -> Ingots
  • Cobble -> Stone Cake (healing)
  • Sticks -> Torches


License
Code: GPLv3
Media: CC BY-SA 3.0

Authors
Lean Rada (minetest defense, which this was forked from)
NetherEran (code, media, assembling the game)
StarNinjas (some textures)
Various other people whose mods were used (see readme/license files of individual mods)

Download
This game uses the new player velocity api so it only works with Minetest 5.1+

Download
Source code

Recent changes:
15 minutes after I posted this: removed crash when creating a world


This game has an automatic update checker that can be enabled in the games section of the settings screen.
Attachments
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Last edited by Eran on Thu Nov 07, 2019 22:37, edited 5 times in total.
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Lone_Wolf » Fri Sep 06, 2019 02:40

This game is awesome! Great work!

I'm not sure if this is intended but I can almost float if I jump off a cliff and spamclick into the air with the dwarf sword.
And whenever I kill a creature I get a huge jump boost
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Eran » Fri Sep 06, 2019 06:06

Thank you! :)
I need to write a proper in-game guide at some point that explains the sword and other gameplay.
Every time you hit with the sword you get a little boost in the direction where you're looking. As long as you can't actually float away that way it's fine and I do like that you can use it to jump higher. It just needs some special player animations.
The jump boost is part of a core feature of combat in this game. When you kill something you go on a rampage for one second. This means the sword boost is amplified and can be used to whiz around the map. Also you get the power to kill other mobs in a single hit.
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Wuzzy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 21:28

Okay, so I have played the alpha v1.0.0 a bit and I'm pretty excited to see something very new here! I always love it when Minetest is being used to come up with very new ideas that are unlike other games.

It seems you try to keep the game rather simple. Only 6 crafts. Instead, the main focus clearly lies on the combat, which is surprisingly smooth, by the way. That part really surprised me the most.
But I think the simplicity is not a bad thing. As long the mechanics work out, this is fine.

The whole atmosphere is really nice, I just wish you'd make more liberal use of ambient sounds or even music. It seems lacking. I want to have more of that “barren wasteland” / “impending doom” feel. :)

One big thing I feel lacking is some scoring mechanism, or any sense of progress for that matter. This game basically screams for a highscore system, since the main goal here is “survive as long as possible”. But the game doesn't tell me at all how well I did.


Is this game already on a server? That would be awesome! :)


List of bugs:

- I somehow keep getting the item “the_end:wieldhand” in my inventory. I don't know how. The item is invisible, i.e. the item image is not visible. I can only tell the item exists by its tooltip, by hovering a seemingly empty itemslot. VERY confusing. I wonder if this is a bug in Minetest.
- The map boundaries look very strange. The map continuity is ugly broken. I think this should be completely redone to look more natural
- You can drop items, then you lose them for good. Is dropping items intended?
- You can build a tall reinforced wall inside yourself and make yourself stuck
- You can place block at the invisible wall
- There's no sounds WHILE digging a block
- The wieldhand does not match the player skin. Like, at all. Note there's several wieldhand mods out there.
- Revival is awkward. You just respawn on the same spot, but after some seconds you return to the start screen.

List of unsorted comments:
- Guess what? I don't even like the whole invisible-wall thing … Invisible wall is always a really lazy way that games do to restrict player movement. Have any better ideas to block player movement? Maybe design the borders of the map so that it feels more “natural” you can't proceed. Maybe a huge inpenetrable wall … maybe a magic barrier … maybe a giant deathpit … like as if your last bastion is surroun
- It's not really clear where the monsters come from (I mean, logically, lore-wise). They just poof into existence.
- It seems the map is predefined. So, is it really neccessary to allow free choice of mapgen? Just restrict the choice to one mapgen that closest matches the reality, everything else is just a fake choice.
- The game is lacking atmospheric sounds, or background music
- The starting screen is a bit awkward. Not really confusing, just the whole concept is awkward. Opening the inventory to start the game???
- There's no help or introduction
- There are only 6 crafts, but there is a search function and pages … Both search and pages are not neccessary and just add clutter
- Falling damage can be nasty if you get launched into the sky. Are you sure you want fall damage in this game?
- The stone cake texture doesn't really look “stone-y” to me, it looks just like a boring-ass regular cake
- Healing is very simple. You just use the item. It seems the healing rate is unlimited. So your healing speed basically depends on how fast you can click with the mouse. I'm not sure if this is a good idea. Maybe disable healing for a short moment
- Very good and creative use of blocks and sky to create a very unique atmosphere
- Combat is surprisingly smooth. I mean the whole knockback and force-push thing. I'm honestly impressed on how well this plays out. This is really refreshing, given how shit combat is in most other games
- Enemies go poof!!! Haha, this is pretty fun to watch. I also very like how the enemies operate.
- I like the random player skin feature
- The description of the commands is empty.
- Yay, German translation! You are my hero! :)
- I don't know if intended, but there's no way to know how much time is left until the next wave. Since you can't see the sun. Intentional?


Questions:
- What's the point of iron wood?
- What's the point of gold?
- What's the point of diamonds?
- What happens if your tools break and you're stuck in a hole and you have no way to repair your tools? Do you just have to wait until night, until the monsters kill you? What if you're stuck so badly the monsters won't reach you (or is this impossible?)
- Is the map completely built by you or is it based on a mapgen result, and then customized? If its from mapgen, maybe the solution to fix continuity at the borders is to force the seed+mapgen on which the map is based on. Or you save a larger area, much larger than the playable area, to ensure continuity
- I can't help but notice that all resources are limited. So if very skilled player(s) manage to survive very long, won't the map eventually be completely destroyed, and all resources used up?
- Avoid words like “rightclick”. Say “use” instead. Why? Because Android. And “use” is the official semantics of rightclick. (I admit, I also have committed this sin too often :( Doesn't change that it's bad )

Ideas:
- The health display should have a background (grayed-out hearts for the hearts you lost, many games do have this). I always hate invisible hearts.
- Healing items should display HP bonus in tooltip
- Add show_wielded_item mod
- Add more sounds for various events that lack sounds (such as eating a stone cake)
- Display the current wave you're in. Or the day number.
- Make a sound when a new wave starts (maybe a "battle horn" or something)
- Add a scoring system and highscore
- When you die, show some stats: Number of days survived, number of monsters killed, score, etc.
- It's stupid that /newappearance can give you the same skin. Please make sure the skin will always change to something else
- Bedrock should have a different texture
- I'm not 100% serious about this, but how about replacing the starting screen with something else? Maybe spawn new players in a special room that acts like a 3D main menu. Players that are not playing will meet here and they can join the game by punching a block or entering a teleporter or whatever. This room might later be extended with additional options, like highscore table, rulebook, etc. This would also be a good place to respawn after you died. Could be the ghostly netherworld, a place between life and death, the crypt, or whatever other ideas you might have. Just something that it makes sense in the game universe. ;-)

List of German typos:
- “Verwende um Werkzeuge zu repareiren” → “Verwende, um …”. Many other strings have this grammar fail (missing comma)
- “Mörser Und Stößel“ → “Mörser und Stößel”
- “zum starten” → “zum Starten”
- Note that in Minetest, we use “Sie”, not “du”. I even opened a thread about it! viewtopic.php?f=21&t=23257&p=356447
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Yvanhoe » Sat Sep 07, 2019 02:36

I really like the way it is going to, I second the need for a timer to indicate the next wave (You can actually have a sense of time with the /time command). I guess the small number of crafts comes from the fact it is alpha and more features will be added.

I did not play through a lot of days, but the beginning seems a bit too easy to me. It is trivially easy to seal the cavern with three layers of reinforced walls (why even provide some at the beginning?) then dig some room deeper and seal yourself. You won't miss anything.

I like the general idea but I feel some mechanics are missing to make this challenging.
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Eran » Sat Sep 07, 2019 08:27

Thanks for the replies!

More ambience, a guide, stats and stuff are definetely needed.
I need to improve map loading, but having nice boundaries is the map's responsibility (which the one I've made so far ignores). The reason that mapgen choice is not restricted is that I want to have the ability to load procedurally generated terrain as map at some point.

I'm planning to put more buttons on the menu screen so it has more than one purpose. Including a guide, and a skin I'll also look into ways to not have to tell the player to open their inventory.

The wieldhand bug might have something to do with a bug in inv:set_list. I can't really see how else it would happen.
I'll look into the other bugs you told me about and I'll also look into the problems.

Wuzzy wrote:List of unsorted comments:
- Guess what? I don't even like the whole invisible-wall thing … Invisible wall is always a really lazy way that games do to restrict player movement. Have any better ideas to block player movement? Maybe design the borders of the map so that it feels more “natural” you can't proceed. Maybe a huge inpenetrable wall … maybe a magic barrier … maybe a giant deathpit … like as if your last bastion is surroun
- It's not really clear where the monsters come from (I mean, logically, lore-wise). They just poof into existence.
- It seems the map is predefined. So, is it really neccessary to allow free choice of mapgen? Just restrict the choice to one mapgen that closest matches the reality, everything else is just a fake choice.
- The game is lacking atmospheric sounds, or background music
- The starting screen is a bit awkward. Not really confusing, just the whole concept is awkward. Opening the inventory to start the game???
- There's no help or introduction
- There are only 6 crafts, but there is a search function and pages … Both search and pages are not neccessary and just add clutter
- Falling damage can be nasty if you get launched into the sky. Are you sure you want fall damage in this game?
- The stone cake texture doesn't really look “stone-y” to me, it looks just like a boring-ass regular cake
- Healing is very simple. You just use the item. It seems the healing rate is unlimited. So your healing speed basically depends on how fast you can click with the mouse. I'm not sure if this is a good idea. Maybe disable healing for a short moment
- Very good and creative use of blocks and sky to create a very unique atmosphere
- Combat is surprisingly smooth. I mean the whole knockback and force-push thing. I'm honestly impressed on how well this plays out. This is really refreshing, given how shit combat is in most other games
- Enemies go poof!!! Haha, this is pretty fun to watch. I also very like how the enemies operate.
- I like the random player skin feature
- The description of the commands is empty.
- Yay, German translation! You are my hero! :)
- I don't know if intended, but there's no way to know how much time is left until the next wave. Since you can't see the sun. Intentional?


-The thing about invisible walls it that they're easy to do. I might try how accelerating the player back into the map feels though.
-Mob spawning has to improve, I'll also see if I can come up with more lore.
-Planned
-Fall damage is already halved. I'll see if I'll remove it, make it even weaker of give the player more health.
-I just quickly drew something that looked like the cake bombs in SuperTuxKart so it is in fact not boring at all Ü
-Healing with just juice is fairly hard once you get surrounded by monsters. Especially since you can't hit while healing and not having the sword dashes makes you get surrounded even more. Stone cake is more powerful but it's also not infinite.
-Thanks :)
-Thanks :) Imo moving the player automatically makes a lot of things feel a lot better.
-Thanks :)
-I'm planning a proper skin changer but I'll propably keep random ones too.
-I'll look into command descriptions
- :)
-I'll see if I can find a good way to make the player notice the time


Iron Wood is an alternative to wood for when there are not trees. On the current map it's not really needed right now though.
I still have to find a use for gold and diamonds, but I definetely can't have a dwarf game without gold and gems.
Breaking tools turn into broken tools which are just slower and can be repaired.

Wuzzy wrote:- I can't help but notice that all resources are limited. So if very skilled player(s) manage to survive very long, won't the map eventually be completely destroyed, and all resources used up?

If they're that good they'd get bored before they can use everything up.

Wuzzy wrote:deas:
- The health display should have a background (grayed-out hearts for the hearts you lost, many games do have this). I always hate invisible hearts.
- Healing items should display HP bonus in tooltip
- Add show_wielded_item mod
- Add more sounds for various events that lack sounds (such as eating a stone cake)
- Display the current wave you're in. Or the day number.
- Make a sound when a new wave starts (maybe a "battle horn" or something)
- Add a scoring system and highscore
- When you die, show some stats: Number of days survived, number of monsters killed, score, etc.
- It's stupid that /newappearance can give you the same skin. Please make sure the skin will always change to something else
- Bedrock should have a different texture
- I'm not 100% serious about this, but how about replacing the starting screen with something else? Maybe spawn new players in a special room that acts like a 3D main menu. Players that are not playing will meet here and they can join the game by punching a block or entering a teleporter or whatever. This room might later be extended with additional options, like highscore table, rulebook, etc. This would also be a good place to respawn after you died. Could be the ghostly netherworld, a place between life and death, the crypt, or whatever other ideas you might have. Just something that it makes sense in the game universe. ;-)

-yes
-yes
-yes
-yes
-yes
-yes
-yes
-yes
-The chance to get the same skin is really low and will get even lower, the more armors, beards and hair are added.
-maybe
-I went for the menu screen because I didn't want this to feel like a minecraft minigame as much. As I said the screen needs improvement though.

I'll look into the translation problems too.

Yvanhoe wrote:I did not play through a lot of days, but the beginning seems a bit too easy to me. It is trivially easy to seal the cavern with three layers of reinforced walls (why even provide some at the beginning?) then dig some room deeper and seal yourself. You won't miss anything.

You WILL miss out on the fun. I need to find a good way to punish players who wall of though.
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Wuzzy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:06

-I'm planning a proper skin changer but I'll propably keep random ones too.

Well, the message of the command says the new skin can be the same by random chance. This just feels awkward to read. Even if it's rare, it's a bit stupid. I don't know how the skin system works, but it shouldn't be hard to get a 100% chance different skin. Maybe put all possible skins in a table, copy it and then do table.remove on the current skin, and select a random skin of the remaining ones. Now you have 100% chance the skin will be new. This is usually the way I implement a random change. Or, if the skin is built of multiple pieces do the table.remove trick for a single, random element, or just do it for each element. Either way, the new skin will still be different with a 100% chance.

I did not play through a lot of days, but the beginning seems a bit too easy to me. It is trivially easy to seal the cavern with three layers of reinforced walls (why even provide some at the beginning?) then dig some room deeper and seal yourself. You won't miss anything.

That's quite a serious exploit you found. Good job! :D

If they're that good they'd get bored before they can use everything up.

Or will the game just become impossibly hard at some point? Will the difficulty rise forever or is there a cap?

-I went for the menu screen because I didn't want this to feel like a minecraft minigame as much. As I said the screen needs improvement though.

Yeah, if the menu screen feels more like an actual menu, it'd be fine. Could also be used to display some useful info, like current game status (if game is currently running, players are in day X, number of player, etc.).

The thing about invisible walls it that they're easy to do.

The main problem I have is that the outside area is just completely breaking continuity atm. But I believe it will be fixed.

-I just quickly drew something that looked like the cake bombs in SuperTuxKart so it is in fact not boring at all Ü

Boring? I didn't say it's boring, I just said it doesn't look “stone”-ish for a thing that is made out of stone.
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Eran » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:42

Wuzzy wrote:Well, the message of the command says the new skin can be the same by random chance. This just feels awkward to read. Even if it's rare, it's a bit stupid. I don't know how the skin system works, but it shouldn't be hard to get a 100% chance different skin. Maybe put all possible skins in a table, copy it and then do table.remove on the current skin, and select a random skin of the remaining ones. Now you have 100% chance the skin will be new. This is usually the way I implement a random change. Or, if the skin is built of multiple pieces do the table.remove trick for a single, random element, or just do it for each element. Either way, the new skin will still be different with a 100% chance.

Skins are put together from different textures, some of which are colored. I could propably remove the hint that it can be the same since there are already so many possibilities:
  • 2 sexes
  • 10 skin colors
  • 10 hair brightnesses
  • 10 hair rednesses
  • 1 armor
  • 1 hair
  • 2 beards (only 1 for feminine model)
  • 2 helmets (helmet or empty head slot)
This means there are 2000 possibilities for the feminine model and 4000 for the masculine one. (6000 total) And each texture I add will drastically increase these numbers. I could make sure it changes by remembering one detail before choosing the random texture and re-rolling if it's the same but I'm not sure if it's needed.

Wuzzy wrote:Or will the game just become impossibly hard at some point? Will the difficulty rise forever or is there a cap?

Not currently but that's how it's intended to become.

Wuzzy wrote:The main problem I have is that the outside area is just completely breaking continuity atm. But I believe it will be fixed.

Yes, I have plans to fix this

Wuzzy wrote:Boring? I didn't say it's boring, I just said it doesn't look “stone”-ish for a thing that is made out of stone.

You did, in fact, say boring-ass but I get what you mean :)
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Red_King_Cyclops » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:59

This is already more interesting than Minecraft's end.
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Yvanhoe » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:37

Eran wrote:You WILL miss out on the fun. I need to find a good way to punish players who wall of though.

Heh, walling off and going underground is the most dwarfish thing there is :-)

In many lores though, digging too deep wakes up monsters.


Some suggestions:

- Have a need for some things that can only be found or produced outside (e.g. food that only grows in day light)
- Make it almost impossible to dig back reinforced walls so that people can't just fill a tunnel and dig it out for daily expeditions.
- Don't give reinforced walls at the beginning.
- I don't know how complete it is, but the Astrobe's smoke modcould provide a reason to keep a way out, if some things inside generated toxic smoke that needs to be evacuated.
- Maybe have a mechanics that makes it unsustainable to rely on monsters dying during the day? Maybe they just burrow during the day, attacking if the player walks on them?
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Yvanhoe » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:48

Eran wrote:I still have to find a use for gold and diamonds, but I definetely can't have a dwarf game without gold and gems.
How about a sanity mechanics? Dwarves love riches. Gold and diamond has a soothing effect on them. If they spend too much time far from finely crafted riches, their sanity and health would deteriorate.

Or maybe there is an unstoppable monster that can only be calmed down by a tribute in diamonds?
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Stix » Sat Sep 07, 2019 15:19

Some thoughts:
Balancing is an issue here, its to hard to survive even the first day outside, but its too easy to wall off you base.
-Yes, its too hard, the second i walk outside my base in the night i get man-piled by a ton of monkeys before i can do anything, and after that im stuck and cannot move, i can only survive it by spamming food and the second that runs out i die
-Once your walled off you can just continually add more and more layers to your wall and dig down deeper infinitely
-Not enough depth, there is only a few crafts, but most importantly the lack of weapons and such, id like to see a battle-axe with splash damage, and maybe even a bow. Some magical items would also be nice, im thinking the gold and diamonds could be used to create charms that give off affects when used (but maybe can only be used once?)
-better interface for work stations, i want to be able to get out and put in a whole stack at a time in the furnace for example, putting in one item at a time is to slow, especially when you need to use your time as efficiently as possible (especially in the morning before the hoard comes)
-Maybe its just me, but i feel like the speed for all the monsters should be nerfed, so you can dodge monsters trying to man-pile on you
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.0]

by Wuzzy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 17:10

This is already more interesting than Minecraft's end.

This game has pretty much nothing to do with “The End” from Minecraft, it's silly to compare those two.


Anyway:
My current record is surviving 1 full day. :D But I only played 2 times so far. I died in the 2nd night, because I failed to make enough food.

I didn't try to hide in the cave so far, this feels like cheating and sounds kind of boring. Aren't the monsters at least trying to break into your cave? Or are they that stupid? :D

I think the problem is that it's possible to trivially create a 100% safe space in your game. But that defeats the whole point of the game. No where on the map should be 100% safe: If you try to nerdpole: Bats and other terrible winged horrors attack you. If you stay on the ground, monster giants will maul you. If you go digging in the cave … some weird stone ghost monster will slowly creep out of the stone, making a terryfying cry as it moves closer to your inevitable doom. You cannot see it as it is hidden inside the stone, but it can see you. You only hear its horrible screeching sound, until it finally stands directly in front of you, thirsting for your insignificant mortal soul.
Or maybe this is just nonsense and you come up with a better idea. :P

It makes sense that some fortifications might be better to defend than others, but nothing should be 100% safe. Everything should have a weakness.
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CRASH

by Wuzzy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 17:31

Crash report!

In my first day, I was busy smelting things and it was getting dark, when suddenly, this happened:

AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'mob_paniki' in callback luaentity_Step(): ...es/the_end/mods/entities/defense/defense_mob_api/mob.lua:614: assertion failed!
stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'assert'
...es/the_end/mods/entities/defense/defense_mob_api/mob.lua:614: in function 'move'
...es/the_end/mods/entities/defense/defense_mob_api/mob.lua:238: in function 'on_step'
...ames/the_end/mods/entities/defense/mob_paniki/paniki.lua:30: in function <...ames/the_end/mods/entities/defense/mob_paniki/paniki.lua:29>


Minetest version: Minetest 5.1.0-dev, commit ea9b241c13e9982acb993e616fa1db685ffba5cb
The End version: e5fc4f83466f949c3561657de66539a1cc878c9d

Also, I think I found an exploit: Minetest has a client setting: repeat_rightclick_rate. It controls the rate of rightclicks. You can set this one to a very low value, like 0.01. This will allow for 100 rightclicks per second. Apparently the crafting stations don't limit how fast you can input things like wooden planks, so you can turn your wood into planks and your planks into sticks in no time!

Not sure if this is intentional. On the other hand, manually clicking with the right mouse button for every item you want to put in is quite painful. Maybe one solution is a little cooloff time for crafting stations like the saw, to limit the amount of planks you can get per second.
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Re: CRASH

by Eran » Sat Sep 07, 2019 18:37

Wuzzy wrote:Crash report!

Thanks, should be fixed.

Stix wrote:-better interface for work stations, i want to be able to get out and put in a whole stack at a time in the furnace for example, putting in one item at a time is to slow, especially when you need to use your time as efficiently as possible (especially in the morning before the hoard comes)

Spam click crafting will go, I agree that it's garbage gameplay.

Stix wrote:Balancing is an issue here, its to hard to survive even the first day outside, but its too easy to wall off you base.


Walling off is something that I will look for ways to punish. The key to surviving otherwise is to wall off in a way that doesn't stop monsters, but slows them down. That way you can easily single out one monster to kill and get a proc (powerful rampage of course), which makes you more mobile and stronger. Basically I have to make a proper ingame guide. Nerfing mobs or buffing procs might still be needed though.

Stix wrote:-Not enough depth, there is only a few crafts, but most importantly the lack of weapons and such, id like to see a battle-axe with splash damage, and maybe even a bow. Some magical items would also be nice, im thinking the gold and diamonds could be used to create charms that give off affects when used (but maybe can only be used once?)

More weapons/ways to fight would be nice to get more variety.

Yvanhoe wrote:How about a sanity mechanics? Dwarves love riches. Gold and diamond has a soothing effect on them. If they spend too much time far from finely crafted riches, their sanity and health would deteriorate.

Or maybe there is an unstoppable monster that can only be calmed down by a tribute in diamonds

Yvanhoe wrote:Heh, walling off and going underground is the most dwarfish thing there is :-)

In many lores though, digging too deep wakes up monsters.


Some suggestions:

- Have a need for some things that can only be found or produced outside (e.g. food that only grows in day light)
- Make it almost impossible to dig back reinforced walls so that people can't just fill a tunnel and dig it out for daily expeditions.
- Don't give reinforced walls at the beginning.
- I don't know how complete it is, but the Astrobe's smoke modcould provide a reason to keep a way out, if some things inside generated toxic smoke that needs to be evacuated.
- Maybe have a mechanics that makes it unsustainable to rely on monsters dying during the day? Maybe they just burrow during the day, attacking if the player walks on them?


Very interesting suggestions, especially the depth monster and the gold addiction, thanks!
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.1]

by Wuzzy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 19:37

And another crash! This time in alpha v1.0.1. It happened right after I applied the update and continued playing in the same world.

AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'mob_paniki' in callback luaentity_Step(): Invalid float vector dimension range 'x' (expected -2.14748e+06 < x < 2.14748e+06 got nan).

stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'setvelocity'
...es/the_end/mods/entities/defense/defense_mob_api/mob.lua:621: in function 'move'
...es/the_end/mods/entities/defense/defense_mob_api/mob.lua:238: in function 'on_step'
...ames/the_end/mods/entities/defense/mob_paniki/paniki.lua:30: in function <...ames/the_end/mods/entities/defense/mob_paniki/paniki.lua:29>


EDIT: Did you see this post?: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=23188&p=356540#p356530

EDIT 2: The mob sounds seem to be at the same volume all the time, no matter how far away they actually are. Intentional? Note that positional sounds must be in mono.
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.1]

by Eran » Sat Sep 07, 2019 20:24

Wuzzy wrote:And another crash! This time in alpha v1.0.1. It happened right after I applied the update and continued playing in the same world.

This is exactly the same crash as before. I added a nan check so hopefully it shouldn't happen anymore.

I did see your post and I have already thought of a noclip monster. I'll see if I add something like it. Better wall breaking behaviour might work too and I also really like the idea of waking up some kind of powerful depth monster. I definetely do agree that nowhere should be safe.

Wuzzy wrote:The mob sounds seem to be at the same volume all the time, no matter how far away they actually are. Intentional? Note that positional sounds must be in mono.

Not intentional and hopefully all fixed. I wasn't aware that it has to be mono but it makes sense.
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.2]

by Wuzzy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 20:38

Another bug: If a furnace contains 128 fuel or 128 smelting items, you can continue to put more items into it, but the number in the furnace doesn't increase. You just lose the item.

The cave trick seems much worse than it sounded before. Apparently it's enough if I just dig a simple diagonal mineshaft and I'm already safe from most monsters, except for an occasional bat maybe. I don't even have to seal it off at all. If I just stay down, the monsters don't appear to be smart enough to actually *find* the way into the cave entrance.

I noticed that minimap is allowed. Intentional? Also, the minimap is completely black in the area of play somehow.

EDIT:

Mapgen goes bonkers:
https://satoshiupload.com/images/iX9iuRwVVU.png
https://satoshiupload.com/images/rf4ntKuPle.png

Monsters can spawn out of map bounds:
https://satoshiupload.com/images/Ivfx8CN6lc.png
https://satoshiupload.com/images/W1UjujIzKT.png
https://satoshiupload.com/images/jIqbs8Y2f1.png
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.2]

by Red_King_Cyclops » Sat Sep 07, 2019 21:28

I played this game, and so far it is impressive but very buggy. It's not like Minecraft's End at all (which is very obvious).

My strategy was to build a wall in front of the dwarven door and leave a hole to see what was happening outside. However, a terrifying bat flew in. I blocked off the hole, but the bat was still inside. After a few minutes of continuous fighting, I was able to kill the bat with an axe (the sword caused the game to crash when ever it was used). The enemies in this game are so powerful that that one bat could have been a boss battle in another game. After a while I became bored of being secure, so I broke my wall and tried to fight outside. One type of enemy kept on crashing the game. I don't think my end was very expensive.

After a while, I realized that most of the textures actually weren't from Minetest Game, which came as a surprise. The gameplay was very different as well. The models and textures for the crafting blocks are highly detailed.

Although this game is still in alpha, it already stands out among Minetest's limited selection of games. Did you have a vision for this game?

Also, I suggest adding in traps and possibly an underground Dwarven bunker that the player could unlock and retreat to.
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.2]

by Eran » Sat Sep 07, 2019 21:56

Wuzzy wrote:Another bug: If a furnace contains 128 fuel or 128 smelting items, you can continue to put more items into it, but the number in the furnace doesn't increase. You just lose the item.

The cave trick seems much worse than it sounded before. Apparently it's enough if I just dig a simple diagonal mineshaft and I'm already safe from most monsters, except for an occasional bat maybe. I don't even have to seal it off at all. If I just stay down, the monsters don't appear to be smart enough to actually *find* the way into the cave entrance.

I noticed that minimap is allowed. Intentional? Also, the minimap is completely black in the area of play somehow.

EDIT:

Mapgen goes bonkers:
https://satoshiupload.com/images/iX9iuRwVVU.png
https://satoshiupload.com/images/rf4ntKuPle.png

Monsters can spawn out of map bounds:
https://satoshiupload.com/images/Ivfx8CN6lc.png
https://satoshiupload.com/images/W1UjujIzKT.png
https://satoshiupload.com/images/jIqbs8Y2f1.png


Thanks for all the testing. The right click spamming kiln is going to go and so will that bug hopefully. The minimap showing is not intended but I don't think it hurts apart from the black part looking unpolished. I think that's caused by the invisible wall at the top btw.
The mapgen weirdness seems to be caused by the map's schematics overwriting the rest of the map. I'll have to place a perimeter of empty map blocks surrounding it.
Mobs spawning out of map bounds happens because I haven't really touched the mob spawning director since I added map stuff. It definetely needs a bunch of changes, also including having a direction from which mobs attack.
Mobs are also currently very stupid. Minetest Defense contains pathfinding stuff (which unlike minetest's pathfinding supports bigger collision boxes) but it makes all the mobs squeeze into the same, optimal path. It's also really expensive computationally. Maybe a more mobkit-like "change direction if obstructed" way could work better, or maybe a swarm based AI like here.

RedKingCyclops wrote:However, a terrifying bat flew in. I blocked off the hole, but the bat was still inside. After a few minutes of continuous fighting, I was able to kill the bat with an axe (the sword caused the game to crash when ever it was used). The enemies in this game are so powerful that that one bat could have been a boss battle in another game.

Tools deal really low damage in The End, the sword is MUCH stronger. The game crashed when you used the sword because it calls the add_player_velocity function which isn't in an official build yet. To fix the crash, you can either build from source or use the latest of sfan5's builds.

Red_King_Cyclops wrote:One type of enemy kept on crashing the game.

This might be the same crash as the one Wuzzy reported. In case you're already on The End alpha v1.0.2, and it still happens, then please send me the crash log.

Red_King_Cyclops wrote:Although this game is still in alpha, it already stands out among Minetest's limited selection of games. Did you have a vision for this game?

Thanks :) It is heavily inspired by Robert Moran's Dwarves vs Zombies, but also has a lot of differences.
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.2]

by Eran » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:35

It is Wednesday my Dwarves!
  • Added a guide that can be accessed ingame
  • Disabled fall damage
  • Kilns are now less painful to operate and less buggy.
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.3]

by Wuzzy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 16:55

Bugs:
- I still take fall damage
- Crafting something with a full inventory destroys the craft
- +Z wall is wrong: It is one node too far away from the map, creating a deep 1-node wide chasm (try in singlenode)
- German guide calls the guide command “/quide”
- German translation full of typos and grammar mistakes (plz use a spellchecker …)
- You can place things on the invisible wall, not sure if intentional
- You use up mortar even if there is nothing to repair
- Monsters are not deleted when you play a new game
- Old structures above Y=59 (or so) do not disappear when you play a new game.

Suggestions:
- Add images into the guide to display a nice image about the selected topic (e.g. kiln icon for kiln, image of paniki for Paniki page, etc.)
- Add button to open page in guide (double-click is not obvious)
- To create a simple continuity with the outside world, could just repeat the outer-most node endlessly in each direction (except trees)
- Maybe make the map limits visible? A slight semi-transparent glow effect could be nice, as if someone cursed the dwarves to be confined in the box :)
- Add a crafting recipe to repair damaged walls in your inventory
- Add some kind of visible effect so you can see if you're in rage mode or not
- Guide should mention that you can place walls quickly with using the punch key

EDIT: Crash!

AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'mob_unggoy' in callback luaentity_Step(): Invalid float vector dimension range 'y' (expected -2.14748e+06 < y < 2.14748e+06 got 5.99186e+06).

stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'setvelocity'
...games/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/explosion.lua:211: in function 'blast_effect'
...games/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/explosion.lua:298: in function 'propagate'
...games/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/explosion.lua:319: in function 'explode'
...s/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/barrel_entity.lua:97: in function <...s/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/barrel_entity.lua:57>


Happened when a lot of explosives were hurled around and a lot of monsters were around.

EDIT 2:

I found another fairly easy way to survive forever:
Image

Go to the highest point of the map, then place a pillar of like 8 blocks, then build a floor and surround it with walls and a ceiling. Begin small, you can make the fortress larger at a later time. Break the initial pillar so you have a floating fortress. Place torches liberally so everything is lit. At daytime, you go mining for resources to extend your fortress. At nighttime, hide in the fortress and … wait. None of the monsters can reach you.

How do you enter the fortress? Easy: Look up, jump and swing your sword repeatedly, now it will make you fly! You can leave a little entrance in your fortress that you can seal off at nighttime.

You could also make little 1×1 holes in your fortress so you can see what's going outside. AFAIK none of the monsters fits through.

This stratgy allowed me to survive an entire night with literally doing nothing, then I got bored. :D The building in the screenshot is 3 storeys high and includes all crafting stations and took a few nights to build. Admittedly, I cheated, because I abused a bug that caused high blocks to not be deleted after death …

Another hint: If you build your fortress at the map border or even a corner, you can save a lot of material. You cannot pass this invisible border, but neither can the monsters. You basically get an indestructible wall for free! :D
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.3]

by Eran » Wed Sep 11, 2019 21:22

-Appearently both fall damage reduction and hit damage cooldowns were broken all the time. Now it's fixed though and fall damage is gone.
-I fixed the Z wall
-I might have broken crafting accidentally but it could also be a problem in Rubenwardy's crafting mod. I might test when I feel like it.
-I could have sworn I've fixed the /quide thing already, but now it's fixed for real
Mobs are now deleted using minetest.remove_objects so it should work reliably now. I'll have to make sure maps don't get too big though.
-The map doesn't even go that high. Appearently the top invisible wall is too high. I'm planning to optimize maps anyway so I might aswell fix it.
-I've added a nan check to bombs that hopefully fixes the crash. They also lift up players now.
-I already thought about adding pictures to the guide, might do it at some point
-GUI is hard to do intuitive. I've tried to add a button now but when it's pressed the table with the map selection doesn't seem to be in the fields sent. Circumventing this might get complicated since it has to be per-player.
-Guide now mentions placing walls as pillars
-So far I haven't really cared about placing blocks on invisible walls. They might get more annoying though if you can't place things on them. Maybe I should make blocks placed on them explode.
I also think I'll do the accelerating people back into the map thing. That way the area around the invisible wall becomes annoying to be in and it can't be used as free wall as easily.
-I'll think about visual effects for rampages

Sword floating might have to get nerfed a bit. At the beginning I found it hard to get up 5 nodes but now it feels trivial either because of practice or for some other reason.

I'll try to think of catchall ways thing to punish cowards who don't fight instead of just checking if they walled off. This propably will be for players as a group so if one only mines and one only fights the miner won't be detected as coward.
 

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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.3]

by Red_King_Cyclops » Wed Sep 11, 2019 22:09

Wuzzy wrote:Bugs:
- I still take fall damage
- Crafting something with a full inventory destroys the craft
- +Z wall is wrong: It is one node too far away from the map, creating a deep 1-node wide chasm (try in singlenode)
- German guide calls the guide command “/quide”
- German translation full of typos and grammar mistakes (plz use a spellchecker …)
- You can place things on the invisible wall, not sure if intentional
- You use up mortar even if there is nothing to repair
- Monsters are not deleted when you play a new game
- Old structures above Y=59 (or so) do not disappear when you play a new game.

Suggestions:
- Add images into the guide to display a nice image about the selected topic (e.g. kiln icon for kiln, image of paniki for Paniki page, etc.)
- Add button to open page in guide (double-click is not obvious)
- To create a simple continuity with the outside world, could just repeat the outer-most node endlessly in each direction (except trees)
- Maybe make the map limits visible? A slight semi-transparent glow effect could be nice, as if someone cursed the dwarves to be confined in the box :)
- Add a crafting recipe to repair damaged walls in your inventory
- Add some kind of visible effect so you can see if you're in rage mode or not
- Guide should mention that you can place walls quickly with using the punch key

EDIT: Crash!

AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod 'mob_unggoy' in callback luaentity_Step(): Invalid float vector dimension range 'y' (expected -2.14748e+06 < y < 2.14748e+06 got 5.99186e+06).

stack traceback:
[C]: in function 'setvelocity'
...games/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/explosion.lua:211: in function 'blast_effect'
...games/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/explosion.lua:298: in function 'propagate'
...games/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/explosion.lua:319: in function 'explode'
...s/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/barrel_entity.lua:97: in function <...s/the_end/mods/items/gunpowder_barrels/barrel_entity.lua:57>


Happened when a lot of explosives were hurled around and a lot of monsters were around.

EDIT 2:

I found another fairly easy way to survive forever:
Image

Go to the highest point of the map, then place a pillar of like 8 blocks, then build a floor and surround it with walls and a ceiling. Begin small, you can make the fortress larger at a later time. Break the initial pillar so you have a floating fortress. Place torches liberally so everything is lit. At daytime, you go mining for resources to extend your fortress. At nighttime, hide in the fortress and … wait. None of the monsters can reach you.

How do you enter the fortress? Easy: Look up, jump and swing your sword repeatedly, now it will make you fly! You can leave a little entrance in your fortress that you can seal off at nighttime.

You could also make little 1×1 holes in your fortress so you can see what's going outside. AFAIK none of the monsters fits through.

This stratgy allowed me to survive an entire night with literally doing nothing, then I got bored. :D The building in the screenshot is 3 storeys high and includes all crafting stations and took a few nights to build. Admittedly, I cheated, because I abused a bug that caused high blocks to not be deleted after death …

Another hint: If you build your fortress at the map border or even a corner, you can save a lot of material. You cannot pass this invisible border, but neither can the monsters. You basically get an indestructible wall for free! :D

Can't the bats fly in through the 1x1 holes and infiltrate the fortress?
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Re: [Game] The End [alpha v1.0.4]

by Wuzzy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 22:19

I'll try to think of catchall ways thing to punish cowards who don't fight instead of just checking if they walled off. This propably will be for players as a group so if one only mines and one only fights the miner won't be detected as coward.


Or you teach mobs how to find players anywhere. This will feel much more natural than any artificial “punishment”.

Floating fortress? More flying mobs with cannons!
Deep in the ground? Send in small mobs that are able to dig, to make room for the larger mobs. And/or teach the mobs with bombs how to bomb strategically …
Huge walls? More bombs!! Or teach mobs how to jump higher, or even climb walls.

Instead of “punishing” players who try to avoid battles, make it so that there's simply no way to avoid battles forever, and that sooner or later the mobs will find you …

In general, make mobs smarter. Current mobs are very stupid and unable to find the dwarves in various simple hiding places. Hor example, they can't even find me when I'm in a cave that is not even walled off and all they have to do is to walk inside … They seem to linger around directly above me and refuse to just enter the cave … I think mobs being stupid is the main reason why it's (relatively) easy to avoid battles.

Can't the bats fly in through the 1x1 holes and infiltrate the fortress?

Oddly enough, this never happened to me. Either they're too big or too stupid to find the hole. Or I was just lucky. Anyway, if bats could infiltrate, then the holes need to be closed, obviously.
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