[Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by v-rob » Wed Dec 11, 2019 22:32

Let's make a compromise: The more tools you have in a stack, the faster you can dig with them :P

I think stackable tools is probably the best solution. It's not like you'll really notice, since numbers aren't shown in the wield item.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Mon Dec 16, 2019 06:28

v-rob wrote:Let's make a compromise: The more tools you have in a stack, the faster you can dig with them :P

I think stackable tools is probably the best solution. It's not like you'll really notice, since numbers aren't shown in the wield item.


They're now stackable. Hopefully that takes away a lot of these issues.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Mon Dec 16, 2019 06:30

sofar wrote:Perks! Yes! We have perks!

Perks are special privileges given out to ... established builders. We currently have 2 obtainable perks:

- zoom. Player may use the `zoom` feature everywere, including in boxes.
- lobby sprint. Player may use the `aux` key to `sprint` in the lobby. Does not work in boxes or when editing.

The zoom perk requires that you have 2 accepted boxes. The lobby sprint perk requires that you have 5 accepted boxes.

These perks are not given out retroactively, but, when your box gets accepted, previously built boxes do count. So, you may just need to only get 1 box accepted to get the zoom perk, or even both perks!


From today on, the server grants perks on login. If you had previously had enough boxes accepted, you will gain the perks automatically, you don't need to submit and get a new box accepted.

There's now also a perk to raise the amount of unfinished boxes to 5. You get it at 3 accepted boxes.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by PapaRubby » Tue Feb 11, 2020 08:47

Hi everyone !
As some builders ran out of ideas for now, i'd like to propose a concept : my last submitted (and probably already accepted) box, 851 - "Ep01-Tiny man discovers the kitchen", could be the first part of a sequel, feel free to write the next episodes !
Some builders (like me) feel guilty to copy box themes or ideas ; in this case, you have the builder consent ! Tiny man would love to discover other places !

PS : @sofar will there be a specific perk or whatever for 10, 15 or 20 accepted boxes ?
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Feb 11, 2020 19:12

PapaRubby wrote:PS : @sofar will there be a specific perk or whatever for 10, 15 or 20 accepted boxes ?


I had thought of a fast-dig perk, but, it would unfairly skew player rankings, so I can't do that. I can't think of anything else right now.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Lone_Wolf » Tue Feb 11, 2020 19:31

sofar wrote:
PapaRubby wrote:PS : @sofar will there be a specific perk or whatever for 10, 15 or 20 accepted boxes ?


I had thought of a fast-dig perk, but, it would unfairly skew player rankings, so I can't do that. I can't think of anything else right now.

Ideas:
New nodes for use in boxes
Custom Skin
Custom nametag color (within reason) that shows up on the rankings too
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Kurtzmusch » Tue Feb 11, 2020 21:50

sofar wrote:
PapaRubby wrote:PS : @sofar will there be a specific perk or whatever for 10, 15 or 20 accepted boxes ?


I had thought of a fast-dig perk, but, it would unfairly skew player rankings, so I can't do that. I can't think of anything else right now.


give them their own temple on the play area, or theyre own series teleporter
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by PapaRubby » Wed Feb 12, 2020 03:06

I thought on a special box, like one big box of 100 nodes square, not to make a hide and seek box, but a beautiful landscape with a story line. It could be 100 nodes for the 10th accepted box, 200 nodes for the 20th, and so on.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Feb 12, 2020 06:38

Lone_Wolf wrote:Ideas:
New nodes for use in boxes
Custom Skin
Custom nametag color (within reason) that shows up on the rankings too


New nodes are always welcome - we've had a few added after we started. But I can't make them restricted - I feel that would be unfair when people have an idea and they can't complete it unless (some random requirement) is met.

Custom skins are expensive and require server restarts.

Admins get a `golden` bracelet. We can do something similar for veteran builders, that seems like a good idea. Perhaps a "badge" on the chest, or a different color bracelet?
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Feb 12, 2020 06:41

PapaRubby wrote:I thought on a special box, like one big box of 100 nodes square, not to make a hide and seek box, but a beautiful landscape with a story line. It could be 100 nodes for the 10th accepted box, 200 nodes for the 20th, and so on.


Boxes that large are too expensive for the server - it would take too much time saving/loading and the server would have large lag spikes.

In my experience, 40-sized boxes are already way too large for most builders. As a matter of fact, we should likely *restrict* new builders to 30-or smaller boxes only. I've seen way too many new builders make desolate and ugly 40-size boxes as their first, and getting disillusioned because it is *just* too much work to fix.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Feb 12, 2020 06:42

Kurtzmusch wrote:
sofar wrote:
PapaRubby wrote:PS : @sofar will there be a specific perk or whatever for 10, 15 or 20 accepted boxes ?


I had thought of a fast-dig perk, but, it would unfairly skew player rankings, so I can't do that. I can't think of anything else right now.


give them their own temple on the play area, or theyre own series teleporter


There's actually a really good idea here - perhaps we can maybe at some point make this happen...
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Wuzzy » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:47

I've seen way too many new builders make desolate and ugly 40-size boxes as their first, and getting disillusioned because it is *just* too much work to fix.

Allowing to resize boxes would help a lot here. I suppose it's hard to estimate how to estimate how large you want your box to be beforehand.

There's actually a really good idea here - perhaps we can maybe at some point make this happen...

That's a terrible idea. This just adds content for prestige's sake and circumvents the strict quality control.
Series should be created based on theme/gameplay, not based on the author. Otherwise we'll end up with tons of pointless private series that overlap.

I already suggested to split the “New” series to “Parcour” and “Puzzle” series, which would make much more sense IMO. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18406&start=475#p362770
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Kurtzmusch » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:36

Wuzzy wrote:
There's actually a really good idea here - perhaps we can maybe at some point make this happen...

That's a terrible idea. This just adds content for prestige's sake and circumvents the strict quality control.
Series should be created based on theme/gameplay, not based on the author. Otherwise we'll end up with tons of pointless private series that overlap.


well, we dont really need to use only accepted boxes as a criteria, we could also use a number X of boxes that also have a good enough rating( after beeing suficienly rated by a significant amount of players )

also, even though i agree that grouping boxes by theme/gameplay makes more sense, i dont see any harm in grouping by player aswell, specially since i find myself looking in the website to play boxes from players that i know will deliver something of a higher quality

> but then people will create lots of accounts to pump their ratings, or game the system in other ways
if that is a real concern then we might aswell get rid of the builder scoreboards, wich is also purely about prestige and can be easyly gamed
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by PapaRubby » Wed Feb 12, 2020 17:33

sofar wrote:Boxes that large are too expensive for the server - it would take too much time saving/loading and the server would have large lag spikes.


That was only one box for each builder that reach the 10, 15 or 20th accepted box, maybe a 80 or 60 nodes ? But if even one big box by big builder is too expensive, nevermind.

In my opinion, no prestige needed (like a dedicated temple or a special skin or whatever), the characters hardly meet each other on this server, that's not the point. If you accept/want to reward builders, look at what they want/need to keep building ! I'll think about it more
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Feb 12, 2020 18:01

Kurtzmusch wrote:if that is a real concern then we might aswell get rid of the builder scoreboards, wich is also purely about prestige and can be easyly gamed


Please explain how this is "easily gamed".
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by PapaRubby » Thu Feb 13, 2020 15:08

sofar wrote:I've already written several times now that I'll adjust the icons where needed. If anyone else brings it up I'll ban them until they send a patch. I might actually be serious about that. The code is now open, anyone can draw 16x16 icons, you're spending more time heckling than it would take for you to open mspaint and make better icons.


As i had difficulties to categorize boxes with the icons given and without repeating the stars note information, i'd like to propose icons and categorization based upon the things i've red on this forum. I hope i won't be banned for bring it up, i don't understand what is a patch but i'm making 16x16 icons. Before posting them, i'd like players/builders/admin consent.

Do we agree about that :
- there are 3 kinds of box : puzzles (riddles,labyrinth), parkours and searching, some of the boxes could go on 2 or 3 categories but most of them are more on one kind ;
- there are 3 kinds of difficulty : easy, medium and difficult, it depends on players but i agree that boxes should be categorized upon difficulty ;
- there could be 3 or 4 categories of timing : fast, normal and long : fast for less than 5mn, normal for 10 to 20mn and long for more than half an hour. In the searching boxes, this criterion is very subjective but, in my experience, i would have liked to know for how long i'm going to play in a box. And i also have heard players asking for fast boxes.

Sokomine said : "Up/Down as in like/dislike may remain. Then there's scenery (maybe a tree with a house?) vs. indoors (floor plan?). Novelity is also important. A box with a surprising concept not seen before. Story - is there one? A book could represent that."

The like/dislike feeling is notified by the number of stars (or maybe i didn't get the meaning of this note), for the others categories : scenery, indoors, novelity, story, i don't think they are relevant, but i can be wrong, let me know what you think about it.

For the icons pictures, i propose :
- a question mark for puzzles
- a magnifying glass (as Sokomine proposed) for searching boxes
- a right arrow for parkours
- time dials for the time, like a timer
- sun for easy
- clouds for medium
- storm for difficult
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Sun Feb 16, 2020 06:01

PapaRubby wrote:For the icons pictures, i propose :
- a question mark for puzzles
- a magnifying glass (as Sokomine proposed) for searching boxes
- a right arrow for parkours
- time dials for the time, like a timer
- sun for easy
- clouds for medium
- storm for difficult


I want to make sure we're not breaking existing icons (since they're used in several boxes), so we need to add new ones for icons that are unusable in their current shape. Going over them one by one:

- question mark - I believe there's already an icon for this. It would be good to reuse it (maybe label it better).
- magnifying class: we'd need to add this
- parkours: a right arrow would be counter intuitive I feel, I would just make a new icon that shows a character jumping
- time: a clock is pretty universal
- sun for easy might be confusing with "out in the open" vs. dark (storm/clouds), so I would like to see a set of icons that fits better here, but I fail to think of anything right now.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Pudding » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:48

Can node detectors please be allowed to detect empty chests.

+ Problem

+ Solution
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Feb 18, 2020 16:49

Pudding wrote:Can node detectors please be allowed to detect empty chests.


Why?

Chests that are opened by players send out a trigger signal.

A player can not place an empty chest.

There is literally no reason to add this code. You should trigger on the chest open event instead.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Feb 18, 2020 16:52

sofar wrote:Chests that are opened by players send out a trigger signal.


Yeah, I'm just looking at your picture and you're doing it "all wrong" :P. You should never use a node detector on a chest.

Hook the chests up to an adder set to 1 (this prevents multiple opening of the same chest from sending out more than one trigger). Then hook all those 3 adders to an adder set to 3. Only 4 nodes are needed this way. Problem solved and this will work reliably.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Pudding » Tue Feb 18, 2020 18:33

sofar wrote:
Hook the chests up to an adder set to 1 (this prevents multiple opening of the same chest from sending out more than one trigger). Then hook all those 3 adders to an adder set to 3. Only 4 nodes are needed this way. Problem solved and this will work reliably.


You call that reliable? it only works if all the chests are open at the same time.

Is there a reason why you should never use a node detector on a chest?
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Feb 19, 2020 05:58

Pudding wrote:
sofar wrote:
Hook the chests up to an adder set to 1 (this prevents multiple opening of the same chest from sending out more than one trigger). Then hook all those 3 adders to an adder set to 3. Only 4 nodes are needed this way. Problem solved and this will work reliably.


You call that reliable? it only works if all the chests are open at the same time.


Ok, so, you need to add a filter, but, then you can avoid using 4 adders and make do with just one:

3x(chest -> filter) -> adder(set to 3) -> filter -> door that opens only when 3 chests are looted.

Is there a reason why you should never use a node detector on a chest?


Yes, because all scenarios that would need the "event that a chest opens" can be handled by "the trigger that the chest generates". Using a node detector to artificially use a completely different and much less reliable way to detect a change in the map (it's using node timers! it might not even see the empty chest if the empty chest is removed by e.g. a node generator!) is just bad practice - there is a 100% reliable way of doing what you need.

Plus, I made it impossible to use this for this very reason. So you have no choice, and I will not change it. That's not being mean - you are right that there needs to be a way to do what you want. And I'm tired and overworked and should have given you a good example that worked in the first reply (lol).
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by PapaRubby » Wed Feb 19, 2020 16:41

sofar wrote:Ok, so, you need to add a filter, but, then you can avoid using 4 adders and make do with just one:

3x(chest -> filter) -> adder(set to 3) -> filter -> door that opens only when 3 chests are looted.


Don't forget, as you said before, 3 more adders set to 1 between the filters and the adder set to 3.

Yes, because all scenarios that would need the "event that a chest opens" can be handled by "the trigger that the chest generates".


I found one scenario that doesn't fit, if the chest is created (see my next box 866). But, hopefully, node detectors detect open chests.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Feb 19, 2020 18:36

PapaRubby wrote:
sofar wrote:Ok, so, you need to add a filter, but, then you can avoid using 4 adders and make do with just one:

3x(chest -> filter) -> adder(set to 3) -> filter -> door that opens only when 3 chests are looted.


Don't forget, as you said before, 3 more adders set to 1 between the filters and the adder set to 3.


Argh yes, you do need them.
 

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