Super Duper Graphics Pack

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Sergey
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by Sergey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 14:18

Great Graphics Pack (I mean that Super Duper)!

I wish MT looks like this.
 

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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by voxelproof » Fri Sep 01, 2017 15:44

@Sergey: there is sth similar allready. You can play Creativerse in the basic version for free, it is in style of Super Duper and I wish MT won't go in this direction. It's charm resides in pixelated textures, not in shiny plastic forms.
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by Sergey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 16:01

voxelproof wrote:@Sergey: there is sth similar allready. You can play Creativerse in the basic version for free, it is in style of Super Duper and I wish MT won't go in this direction. It's charm resides in pixelated textures, not in shiny plastic forms.

I think the opposite. The more realistic game is the better. I hate that pixels! The minimum texture resolution I use is 32px.
 

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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by voxelproof » Fri Sep 01, 2017 17:43

I think the opposite. The more realistic game is the better. I hate that pixels! The minimum texture resolution I use is 32px.


So why to stick to Minetest? There are many other open-world sandboxes with much more polished gfx. For example Blockscape. Btw I sometimes use it, its realistic mod is just astounding (alas, it's not free).
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by Sergey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 17:57

.
Last edited by Sergey on Fri Sep 01, 2017 18:03, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by Sergey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 18:02

Sergey wrote:There are many other open-world sandboxes with much more polished gfx. For example Blockscape. Btw I sometimes use it, its realistic mod is just astounding (alas, it's not free).

First, it is for Windows only. And I hate Windows more than pixels. I use GNU/Linux for about decade. It is free and open source.
Second, it is proprietary. I won't pay a penny to anybody for a software… principally.

Sergey wrote:So why to stick to Minetest?

Cuz it is open source unlike MC or anything else.
 

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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by Byakuren » Sat Sep 02, 2017 02:49

Terasology is freedomware as far as I remember.
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by Sergey » Sat Sep 02, 2017 03:43

Byakuren wrote:Terasology is freedomware as far as I remember.

Yes, nice looking, but Java? Slow and greedy damn thing!

Comparison: https://www.slant.co/versus/6750/18992/ ... terasology
 

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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by voxelproof » Sat Sep 02, 2017 07:07

Sergey wrote:Second, it is proprietary. I won't pay a penny to anybody for a software… principally.


What is this principle your statement is based on? That often hard intellectual work of large teams of programmers isn't worth any material reward?

As a gamer I tend to use only free software, but it is due to the fact that I treat this sort of entertainment as a non-essential secondary activity. But if I really appreciate some free software I usually try to "pay" for it by reporting bugs, writing positive comments or providing useful suggestions at least. I wouldn't like to feel like being just another net parasite.

Sergey wrote:
So why to stick to Minetest?

Cuz it is open source unlike MC or anything else.


Agree. For me it's also an important factor.
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by voxelproof » Sat Sep 02, 2017 16:58

i love the cons of terasology: Slow ; Unstable ; Buggy. That a lot.


I threw it away after last update. It ceased to be openable :D
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Epilogue

by voxelproof » Wed Aug 14, 2019 04:25

Neuromancer wrote:Wow, Minecraft's "Super Duper Graphics Pack" looks intense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1WHYJH-JGk How can Minetest compete with this?


Minetest shouldn't compete in a race into a cul de sac :)

https://www.pcgamer.com/minecrafts-supe ... demanding/

Mojang cancelled SD pack. I guess it's not only due to technical problems. They probably realized that the playerbase of MC is quite different from those of Call of Duty or Doom or whatever latest versions of AAA interactive movies. It's definitely less about graphics, at least realistic one, and more about pure fun of a gameplay with a little humoristic hue added to the whole thing.

Sorry for digging out old topic, but I think it's reasonable to highlight this story in the context of ongoing discussions on this forum about deficiencies of MT's gfx.
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Re: Epilogue

by Linuxdirk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 06:28

voxelproof wrote:Minetest shouldn't compete in a race into a cul de sac :)

... but we still need some shaders other than unrealistically waving leaf nodes and the one that makes all pixels look like having different heights.
 

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Re: Epilogue

by voxelproof » Wed Aug 14, 2019 09:22

Linuxdirk wrote:
voxelproof wrote:Minetest shouldn't compete in a race into a cul de sac :)

... but we still need some shaders other than unrealistically waving leaf nodes and the one that makes all pixels look like having different heights.


Oh, yes, of course I don't think that the present state of gfx is very good, neither close to it. Just sufficient for most day-to-day purposes ;) And you're absolutely right about that shaders changing look of textures, I've tried it on my tp Sunny. While some of them work great, the shaders you've probably meant make utterly disgusting effect.
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by TumeniNodes » Wed Aug 14, 2019 15:03

When I first started looking around these forums, I was gungho for shaders too... but now I am not that concerned about them.
Yes, they are nice to have, for those with beefier machines... not so much for most of the other end users.
The same is true even for MC (aside from the game console users)

For computers, they are resource/FPS sucking vampires.

The current shaders within MT are not thoroughly adjusted... they reside in their most basic state, which is why they do not function as they truly should.
Unfortunately, the one person working on them, and who understood how they work to a degree is no longer with us.
And finding devs who are willing and experienced enough to fix them and add more, are far and few between and very rarely found willing to do it for free out of the kindness of their hearts, unless it is for their own project.

Even just adding proper/correct shadows brings a poor experience for most end users.

I use MC java ed 1.13.2 on my machine and even the slightest (internal) shaders use greatly drops the fps even with optifine installed.
High end, fancy graphics such as these are intended for higher end machines... which more people do not have than people think.
In fact, most are using laptops, which do not commonly have a GPU which makes things even worse... and those with smart phones who do have a GPU simply do not have the processing power.
Higher end desktops are the only ones who will benefit from a load of shaders

I also feel that shaders should not be built into MT, they should be offered as mods/packs. But that is just my opinion

Overall, the amount of work to add a bunch of fancy shaders to the engine is not worth the low impact it will add for most end users.
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by paramat » Sat Aug 17, 2019 23:24

Ultra fancy realistic graphics are a mistake for cube-voxel games like MC and MT, they don't look right in a simplified abstract world of cubes. The fancier they get the worse it looks.
MT's bumpmapping, normalmap, and parallax occlusion shaders look really ugly to me, i don't think they're justified or good enough to have been added to MT, but i won't even try to have them removed =)
Interestingly, celeron55 is uninterested in shaders in MT.
 

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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by TumeniNodes » Sat Aug 17, 2019 23:40

paramat wrote:Ultra fancy realistic graphics are a mistake for cube-voxel games like MC and MT, they don't look right in a simplified abstract world of cubes. The fancier they get the worse it looks.
MT's bumpmapping, normalmap, and parallax occlusion shaders look really ugly to me, i don't think they're justified or good enough to have been added to MT, but i won't even try to have them removed =)
Interestingly, celeron55 is uninterested in shaders in MT.


I believe they were added in with just the absolute basics required to get them to work (with some minor tweaking) and RBA planned to eventually get them set up properly but... :'(

What would be nice, is to have a way to compile MT without them altogether... (well, aside from the water shaders... I use those to set the water just below the nodes at water level) ; )
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by Linuxdirk » Sat Aug 17, 2019 23:49

TumeniNodes wrote:(well, aside from the water shaders... I use those to set the water just below the nodes at water level)

This shouldn’t be the job of a shader in the first place.
 

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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by benrob0329 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 02:50

Shaders != Fancy Graphics, Shaders == GPU Programming.

Shaders are required, at some level, to display graphics on modern hardware.
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Re: Super Duper Graphics Pack

by Yvanhoe » Sun Aug 18, 2019 04:46

That's true. The times of the fixed pipeline is gone, even a hello cube program uses a shader now. It is not a all or nothing situation, little things can be added (by someone who knows what they are doing) without costing too much performances. It is still very easy to kill the fps just with a minor modification though.

TumeniNodes wrote:And finding devs who are willing and experienced enough to fix them and add more, are far and few between and very rarely found willing to do it for free out of the kindness of their hearts, unless it is for their own project.
If there are things that require fixing or removing without breaking anything, I can take a look, I used to work with shaders pretty intensely a few years ago. But I am part of the choir of people who think that CG quality is not a high priority.

TumeniNodes wrote:Even just adding proper/correct shadows brings a poor experience for most end users.
Shadows but even just lighting is something I would like to explore a bit more. I suspect there are a lot of good looking modifications that could be done that would not require any additional resources. There is currently a calculation made to evaluate the luminosity in every point and there is per-vertex lighting. There is no technical reason for the world to look that flat IMO.
 

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