[Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

Kurtzmusch
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Kurtzmusch » Tue Oct 23, 2018 02:01

here a few suggestions:
- any reason for not giving noclip and fast while building?
- a way to visualize some simple statistics for a player like: box ratings/avg rating, completed boxes out of total(this could be done in the terminals), series completed
- glass, iron and bronze slabs
- more colors for those orange cubic lamps
- better visualization of connections (like a simple graditent 3d straight line) because sometimes its hard to tell where the thing is coming from. holding an item could reveal all the circuits at once and a gradient on the line color could be used to indicate signal direction
- option to categorize own box so it can get placed on one or more series automagically
- maybe change the box size while building? basically you would face a wall and use a tool to expand that wall by 1 or maybe face a corner to expand 2 walls and keep it cubic
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Christian_Soldier » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:50

Noclip and fast would make you able to see the secrets in the other boxes... But maybe it could be that the blocks you place in the box editor are able to be walked through and when you submit it, the blocks change to the actual ones.
plz see my map from The Stanley Parable. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19944&p=0&e=0
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Christian_Soldier » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:54

Suggestion: the ability to make holes in the boxes' walls and floor to where if you touch below the floor you die and if you touch past the wall you die also.
plz see my map from The Stanley Parable. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19944&p=0&e=0
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Oct 23, 2018 18:38

Kurtzmusch wrote:here a few suggestions:
- any reason for not giving noclip and fast while building?


Yes.

Reducing the amount of privs we give out helps secure the server and prevent abuse. Maintaining more and more flags makes this much more difficult to do, as it would allow players to exit their boxes.

So, I've specifically chosen to limit noclip and fast. No box is so big that fast is really needed (emphasis "needed"). noclip is just a recipe for trouble.

Kurtzmusch wrote: - a way to visualize some simple statistics for a player like: box ratings/avg rating, completed boxes out of total(this could be done in the terminals), series completed


Wanted, and discussed earlier. Yes I want to use the terminals in the common area to do this exactly.

Kurtzmusch wrote: - glass, iron and bronze slabs


I'm a bit of a style control freak. The consistency of block choices and limited block shape available to players has resulted in really good visuals and kept things "neat" on the code side. I really want to maintain that because the focus should be on the puzzles, not on endless decoration. For that reason, only wood/stone slabs and stairs exist.

Kurtzmusch wrote: - more colors for those orange cubic lamps


No. Well, maybe, but these lamps are not trivial and more colors would be a significant amount of work.

Kurtzmusch wrote: - better visualization of connections (like a simple graditent 3d straight line) because sometimes its hard to tell where the thing is coming from. holding an item could reveal all the circuits at once and a gradient on the line color could be used to indicate signal direction


Yes, wanted. The current particle method is efficient but not very friendly and often confusing. I also want to have better tools to reveal nearby connections as well.

Kurtzmusch wrote: - option to categorize own box so it can get placed on one or more series automagically


No, although not a bad idea. I want to self-categorize by players instead. Crowd source the categories people choose and use that.

Kurtzmusch wrote: - maybe change the box size while building? basically you would face a wall and use a tool to expand that wall by 1 or maybe face a corner to expand 2 walls and keep it cubic


No. Not a bad idea, but complex in code. I would allow being able to resize a box while destroying it (erase functionality) since that would be simplest.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Oct 23, 2018 18:40

Christian_Soldier wrote:Noclip and fast would make you able to see the secrets in the other boxes... But maybe it could be that the blocks you place in the box editor are able to be walked through and when you submit it, the blocks change to the actual ones.


Too complex and open to abuse, which is why we just don't allow noclip.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Oct 23, 2018 18:41

Christian_Soldier wrote:Suggestion: the ability to make holes in the boxes' walls and floor to where if you touch below the floor you die and if you touch past the wall you die also.


Maybe. I did that in one box but the method used isn't really decent, which is why I'm not really considering allowing others to use this method. If someone has a box where this would look good however, they can ask me to change the floor for them.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Kurtzmusch » Tue Oct 23, 2018 20:08

Theres a bug with lamps: after a triger is sent, they wont light up...(this can happen rarely for simple circuits or with 100% chance for some situations)
I know its not any wireing issue because I can make the light turn on by placing or destroying a block near it. Activating a piston near it works as well so i guess any type of update on the chunk will fix it.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Wuzzy » Tue Oct 23, 2018 21:34

What about giving the “zoom” privilege for all? Surely there's no harm in that. :-)

I want to self-categorize by players instead. Crowd source the categories people choose and use that.


About categories: Meh. There aren't really that many boxes to need complex categories. Crowd-sourcing categories completely sounds like a recipe for disaster which just invites lots of duplicate, useless, spam categories. As there are not a lot boxes, I would only use a FEW categories (if any).

For now, the only categories I would suggest are Puzzle and Parcours. Puzzle is for the classic boxes which require thinking or searching. Most boxes would fall into that one. Parcours is for boxes with parcours, or if they require good movement skills in general. Parcours are usually great for trying to beat a record time. But this is a minor suggestion, I don't feel strongly about it and consider it unimportant.

Maybe the “New” series could be split for this. I always hated the name “New” anyway, as it sounds like “Untested”, “Beta”, “Ugly”, “Buggy”, etc. which is far from the truth because all public boxes already have seen serious polishing.
Or maybe the mini temples on the Play island could be abused for that kind of stuff.

In general, categories should be useful and be well-defined. There should be no way to argue about whether a box belongs in a category X or not. Otherwise, categories just quickly degrade into an useless mess.

But right now, categories are unimportant, as there are simply not enough boxes for this to be a real problem in the first place. I'd say don't waste too much time with this as long there are less than 100 boxes.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Kurtzmusch » Tue Oct 23, 2018 22:36

About categories: Puzzle, Parkour, Difficult, Easy, Short/Small, Beautifull, Troll(the good kind of troll like box 326 ).

Wuzzy wrote:In general, categories should be useful and be well-defined. There should be no way to argue about whether a box belongs in a category X or not. Otherwise, categories just quickly degrade into an useless mess.

Categories can be usefull when browsing for a specific type of box that one enjoys. In this case a box could easily fall in more than one category.

Wuzzy wrote:Maybe the “New” series could be split for this. I always hated the name “New” anyway, as it sounds like “Untested”, “Beta”, “Ugly”, “Buggy”, etc. which is far from the truth because all public boxes already have seen serious polishing.

I think the new series is just 'fresh' boxes that havent been rated/categorized yet and could be usefull in letting users rate and categorize boxes. Like you cant imediately categorize a box with only one vote, so they should stay -new- until it gets enough votes to be placed in a category.

Wuzzy wrote:But right now, categories are unimportant, as there are simply not enough boxes for this to be a real problem in the first place. I'd say don't waste too much time with this as long there are less than 100 boxes.

I'm sure that more boxes and players are an incentive to continue developing the game, but the lack of these doesnt mean we shouldn't discuss what to do if we reach a decent box count eventually, but indeed its low priority.

Are we ever going to see a box by Wuzzy? = )
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Christian_Soldier » Wed Oct 24, 2018 00:32

sofar wrote:
Christian_Soldier wrote:Suggestion: the ability to make holes in the boxes' walls and floor to where if you touch below the floor you die and if you touch past the wall you die also.


Maybe. I did that in one box but the method used isn't really decent, which is why I'm not really considering allowing others to use this method. If someone has a box where this would look good however, they can ask me to change the floor for them.

What about a box that looks broken for decoration? Or a parkour box where the floor is gone?
plz see my map from The Stanley Parable. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19944&p=0&e=0
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by TumeniNodes » Wed Oct 24, 2018 05:09

If there were a box, where you have to die many , many times to win... I would so master that...
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Kroukuk » Wed Oct 24, 2018 08:11

Talking about categorys,
it would be nice, if the category signs/smileys had names, that show what they mean
like "fast" instead of "racecar"
or "easy" instead of "winking face"
or "surprising" instead of "o-mouth"
so that the categorization is more consistent.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Wed Oct 24, 2018 16:06

Kurtzmusch wrote:Theres a bug with lamps: after a triger is sent, they wont light up...(this can happen rarely for simple circuits or with 100% chance for some situations)
I know its not any wireing issue because I can make the light turn on by placing or destroying a block near it. Activating a piston near it works as well so i guess any type of update on the chunk will fix it.


This is a fundamental client-side ordering issue. Using a delayer in between the switch and lamp works too.

Note that using left or right click is different. I forget which one, but the problem only shows with one of them.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Sun Oct 28, 2018 06:46

I've published all the game code!

https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20986

Obviously, I hope the code will be useful to everyone. Either if it helps people do more fun on the official ITB server, or on their own projects. If you've used some of the code, let us know in the other thread. Also, code suggestions should be posted on the project thread, but I will appreciate suggestions in here as well, of course - No problems if you put suggestions in this thread.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Christian_Soldier » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:12

sofar wrote:I've published all the game code!

https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20986

Obviously, I hope the code will be useful to everyone. Either if it helps people do more fun on the official ITB server, or on their own projects. If you've used some of the code, let us know in the other thread. Also, code suggestions should be posted on the project thread, but I will appreciate suggestions in here as well, of course - No problems if you put suggestions in this thread.

Awesome! I've been waiting for the code to be released!
plz see my map from The Stanley Parable. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19944&p=0&e=0
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Inocudom » Mon Dec 03, 2018 00:17

Image
Is this what would be called a humility (unbeatable) box? The exit door won't open. This is Box 304 (the Wallace And Gromit one.)
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Mon Dec 03, 2018 02:05

Inocudom wrote:Is this what would be called a humility (unbeatable) box? The exit door won't open. This is Box 304 (the Wallace And Gromit one.)


It's doable. There is an additional pedestal somewhere else.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by GreenDimond » Mon Dec 03, 2018 05:36

Inocudom wrote:Image
Is this what would be called a humility (unbeatable) box? The exit door won't open. This is Box 304 (the Wallace And Gromit one.)

Gosh this was an amazing box. Very difficult, yes. But doable.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Inocudom » Sat Dec 08, 2018 04:15

Now I understand how Hexa feels whenever he does his Dark Tartarus streams... -_- I guess I have finally met my Devil's Tower... -_-
Image
As a kid, I would probably be able to figure stuff like this out. However, since I am now an adult, my brain literally buckles under its crushing weight. Each and every year, I just get a little dumber. In layman's terms, I have no idea what the purpose of this purple wall is. It doesn't react to anything I do at all. It is in the box called Memory.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Christian_Soldier » Sun Dec 09, 2018 21:23

Inocudom wrote:Now I understand how Hexa feels whenever he does his Dark Tartarus streams... -_- I guess I have finally met my Devil's Tower... -_-
Image
As a kid, I would probably be able to figure stuff like this out. However, since I am now an adult, my brain literally buckles under its crushing weight. Each and every year, I just get a little dumber. In layman's terms, I have no idea what the purpose of this purple wall is. It doesn't react to anything I do at all. It is in the box called Memory.

+ Here's a hint:
plz see my map from The Stanley Parable. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19944&p=0&e=0
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Gerald » Tue Dec 11, 2018 13:54

Inocudom wrote:... I have no idea what the purpose of this purple wall is. It doesn't react to anything I do at all. It is in the box called Memory.

I think you missed to pick up something at the start.

Thinking about this, it would have been way better design if the mechanism of the first door ensured this. I wish editing boxes afterwards was a possibility...
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Tue Dec 11, 2018 17:39

Gerald wrote:
Inocudom wrote:... I have no idea what the purpose of this purple wall is. It doesn't react to anything I do at all. It is in the box called Memory.

I think you missed to pick up something at the start.

Thinking about this, it would have been way better design if the mechanism of the first door ensured this. I wish editing boxes afterwards was a possibility...


We (nore and me) can make adjustments to boxes, if there is a significant failure like this - this is one of the things that I try to pay extra attention to when I review boxes since "getting stuck" is usually really hard to recover from :). If you do spot an issue (go and try it again first) then you can e.g. open up a ticket on github to remind me to come up with a fix for it, and you can leave a suggestion there if you're the box creator. A PM also works if you want to keep it hidden, of course.
 

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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by Inocudom » Sun Dec 16, 2018 23:45

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I can't get anywhere at all in this box. Everything is either sealed off or impossible to reach.
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Re: [Server] Inside The Box [Puzzles]

by sofar » Mon Dec 17, 2018 05:03

Inocudom wrote:I can't get anywhere at all in this box. Everything is either sealed off or impossible to reach.


It's doable. Otherwise I wouldn't have accepted it.

Do you want a hint?

+ Spoiler
 

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