Athens (5th Century BC)

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captpete
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC) - STOA OF ZEUS (Eleutherios)

by captpete » Tue Apr 24, 2018 22:00

Here's my latest build.

The Stoa of Zeus Eleutherios is the earliest building erected in the Agora during the Classical period. It was built about 430-420 BC of packed earth & clay (floor and roof tiles), limestone (foundation, walls and metopes) and Pentelic and Hymettian marble (steps and the rest of the facade). The exterior colonnade featured 25 Doric columns and there was a double interior colonnade of 7 Ionic unfluted columns, both composed of Pentelic marble.

Image
Reconstruction of the Doric Stoa of Zeus Eleutherios, ca. 430–420 B.C..

Image
Axonometric view of Stoa of Zeus with the south end of the Royal Stoa. Last quarter of 5th c. B.C..

Image
Stoa of Zeus Eleutherios.

Opps, forgot the benches inside along the walls - just imagine a continuous low stone block around the interior wall.
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Stoa of Zeus Eleutherios.jpg
Stoa of Zeus Eleutherios.
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Axonometric view of Stoa of Zeus with the south end of the Royal Stoa. Last quarter of 5th c. B.C. (web).jpg
Axonometric view of Stoa of Zeus with the south end of the Royal Stoa. Last quarter of 5th c. B.C.
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Reconstruction of the Doric Stoa of Zeus Eleutherios, ca. 430–420 B.C. (web).jpg
Reconstruction of the Doric Stoa of Zeus Eleutherios, ca. 430–420 B.C.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC) STOA POIKILE (Painted)

by captpete » Wed Apr 25, 2018 22:21

The Stoa Poikile is one of the most important and most celebrated buildings of the Athenian Agora and was built between 475 and 450 BC. The building has one Doric colonnade at its façade, and one Ionic colonnade in its interior. It is called Poikile because of the paintings that adorned its walls. It was constructed mostly of limestone with some marble (columns and metopes).


Image
Plan of Stoa Poikile (Painted).

Image
Elevation of the anta capital at the Stoa Poikile in water color.

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STOA POIKILE (Painted).
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STOA POIKILE (Painted) (web).jpg
STOA POIKILE (Painted)
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STOA POIKILE (Painted) (web).jpg
STOA POIKILE (Painted).
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Elevation of the anta capital at the Stoa Poikile in water color (web).jpg
Elevation of the anta capital at the Stoa Poikile in water color.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC) - STOA BASILEIO

by captpete » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:44

captpete wrote:OK here's the latest try at the Royal Stoa. I've been working on the "castle" mod's list of materials and have added the missing default textures in addition to some of the textures in the appropriate "building_blocks", "darkage", "quartz", and "tecnic" mods. I'll be adding the "stones" mod textures today. That should give me more to work with in all of my historical and other worlds. More pictures, drawings, plans and schematics to come. You may use and/or modify the schematics for your own use as long as you site me as the original source and don't "sell" them.

Image
Royal Stoa - 2nd attempt with the "oath stone" in front and the dual-throne right behind the pillars.


Here's the latest revision of the Royal Stoa. You may have noticed I solved the triglyph problem - using the "facade" mod, thanks to voxelproof https://forum.minetest.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=21692 for the hint - but still don't have a good clay tile roof texture for the buildings.

Image
South Stoa I isometric of restored roof tiles.

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STOA BASILEIO (take 3).
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STOA BASILEIO (take 3).
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South Stoa I isometric of restored roof tiles (web).jpg
South Stoa I isometric of restored roof tiles.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by BirgitLachner » Fri Apr 27, 2018 07:06

Hi, nice ideas ...
I'm searching and collecting for educational use Mods that offer special pieces for a special historical age.

https://wiki.minetest.net/MinetestEDU/d ... hen_Themen

Ca you please tell us, what Mods you use for the buildings. I know at least "facade".

Birgit
 

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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:12

BirgitLachner wrote:Hi, nice ideas ...
I'm searching and collecting for educational use Mods that offer special pieces for a special historical age.

https://wiki.minetest.net/MinetestEDU/d ... hen_Themen

Ca you please tell us, what Mods you use for the buildings. I know at least "facade".

Birgit


As I've mentioned in previous posts I use a combination of texture packs and mods to create the "look". They are modified by me to add materials to the textures and textures to the mods. here's (most) of the decoration mods I use:

The "building_blocks", "castle" modpack, "cottages", "homedecor", "invsaw", "moreblocks", "quartz", "streets" and "technic" mods from "Deambuilder ModPack". The "castle_masonry" mod is modified to add materials (textures) from other mods.

Other mods include "3d_armor" (with "xtraarmor"), "bakedclay", "carpets", "darkage", "facade", "mydoors", "stone" and "xdecor", some of which are extended or modified by me to add materials or overlays by me. I also have "medieval", "nether" and "lapis" mods for those materials when needed.

I've mentioned texture packs in previous posts and that I borrow textures from the extensive collection of MineCraft and MineTest resource and Texture Packs I have. I also create textures where needed (such as if there are no 32px textures available or for new materials). I use the "mcresconvert.sh" script and a modified "mccompat" mod to add textures to the worlds I create.

You can check my posts on this forum for some of the changes I've made to "mccompat" (and others) and though I'm not a lua programmer I've manged quite well modifying the mods without destroying anything [Grin]. PM me for specifics if you wish - I don't want to step on any authors toes or violate any copyrights so wont detail specifics in a public forum.
 

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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by solars » Fri Apr 27, 2018 20:17

Woooaaahhh! It looks better and better. (If this is even possible...)

And you are so quick! How long are you playing Minetest every day?
How much time goes in planning and building? 50/50?

I love your map. :)
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Fri Apr 27, 2018 21:20

solars wrote:Woooaaahhh! It looks better and better. (If this is even possible...)

And you are so quick! How long are you playing Minetest every day?
How much time goes in planning and building? 50/50?

I love your map. :)


More like 60% Planning, 20% building (WorldEdit makes it fast) and 20% making tweaks. Lot's of researching the web sites, converting un-calibrated maps and DEMs (unfortunately DEMs are almost useless for topography as the ancient elevations are quite different - I'v had an over a 6m difference in BOTH over and under heights in reference to archeological excavations - a real PITA) to a 320x320 chunk (used as an overlay to the MineTest map), then planning the buildings to match MineTest blocks and spacing (I prefer the actual number of columns in a facade or colonnade to actual ground measurements - lots of fidgeting and then there's the fact that not all (most) buildings were not oriented N-S, E-W, I don't want angled walls if possible), that's what takes the most time.

By the way, I'll be working on other projects for the next few days - couple of weeks so I may not respond as quick as usual. Need a change of pace (and frustration) to come back to it fresh.
 

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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by voxelproof » Sun Apr 29, 2018 13:38

captpete wrote:As I've mentioned in previous posts I use a combination of texture packs and mods to create the "look". They are modified by me to add materials to the textures and textures to the mods. here's (most) of the decoration mods I use:

The "building_blocks", "castle" modpack, "cottages", "homedecor", "invsaw", "moreblocks", "quartz", "streets" and "technic" mods from "Deambuilder ModPack". The "castle_masonry" mod is modified to add materials (textures) from other mods.

Other mods include "3d_armor" (with "xtraarmor"), "bakedclay", "carpets", "darkage", "facade", "mydoors", "stone" and "xdecor", some of which are extended or modified by me to add materials or overlays by me. I also have "medieval", "nether" and "lapis" mods for those materials when needed.

I've mentioned texture packs in previous posts and that I borrow textures from the extensive collection of MineCraft and MineTest resource and Texture Packs I have. I also create textures where needed (such as if there are no 32px textures available or for new materials). I use the "mcresconvert.sh" script and a modified "mccompat" mod to add textures to the worlds I create.


You've undertaken a big and splendid task. I think that putting your modifications into a "Mediterranean" modpack would be at least equally great job as your map, encouraging more ambitious creations like yours :)
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Fri May 04, 2018 20:48

voxelproof wrote:
captpete wrote:As I've mentioned in previous posts I use a combination of texture packs and mods to create the "look". They are modified by me to add materials to the textures and textures to the mods. here's (most) of the decoration mods I use:

The "building_blocks", "castle" modpack, "cottages", "homedecor", "invsaw", "moreblocks", "quartz", "streets" and "technic" mods from "Deambuilder ModPack". The "castle_masonry" mod is modified to add materials (textures) from other mods.

Other mods include "3d_armor" (with "xtraarmor"), "bakedclay", "carpets", "darkage", "facade", "mydoors", "stone" and "xdecor", some of which are extended or modified by me to add materials or overlays by me. I also have "medieval", "nether" and "lapis" mods for those materials when needed.

I've mentioned texture packs in previous posts and that I borrow textures from the extensive collection of MineCraft and MineTest resource and Texture Packs I have. I also create textures where needed (such as if there are no 32px textures available or for new materials). I use the "mcresconvert.sh" script and a modified "mccompat" mod to add textures to the worlds I create.


You've undertaken a big and splendid task. I think that putting your modifications into a "Mediterranean" modpack would be at least equally great job as your map, encouraging more ambitious creations like yours :)


Well, I'm back on the project this afternoon. Since I'm not a "real" LUA programmer that modpack is down the road for now. Not even on my radar at the moment. I've still got to finish the terraforming, not to mention the landscaping - that's what I'll do next after completing the buildings. I've got them all (mosr?) mocked up but detailing still needs to be done on them and I may re-position some as fitting all the non N-S, E-W buildings is a PITA. Here's the present "map" (just of the Agora with the map in the op overlaid) showing what it looks like at present (zoom:2) and how it relates to the actual presumed plan at the end of the 5th century (the zero point is the actual place used to measure stadia (mileage) from in 5th century Athens - the Alter of the 12 Gods.):

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Agora map and overlay
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by voxelproof » Fri May 04, 2018 22:50

captpete wrote:Well, I'm back on the project this afternoon. Since I'm not a "real" LUA programmer that modpack is down the road for now. Not even on my radar at the moment. I've still got to finish the terraforming, not to mention the landscaping - that's what I'll do next after completing the buildings. I've got them all (mosr?) mocked up but detailing still needs to be done on them and I may re-position some as fitting all the non N-S, E-W buildings is a PITA. Here's the present "map" (just of the Agora with the map in the op overlaid) showing what it looks like at present (zoom:2) and how it relates to the actual presumed plan at the end of the 5th century (the zero point is the actual place used to measure stadia (mileage) from in 5th century Athens - the Alter of the 12 Gods.):


As I can see you have a very professional attitude to this project. One of the reasons I revised my opinion on voxel sandboxes was this Minecraft map of Acropolis:
https://www.planetminecraft.com/project ... of-athens/
With all the possibilities provided by Minetest mods and texture packs there's hope that more big projects will be developed. As for now there're very few really great maps, "Karsthafen" by solars is one of them but the ancient Mediterranean architecture is still waiting for good builders. Your project, if completed and done in style will surely encourage others. I feel that some sort of competition is on the way ;)
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by Andrey01 » Sun May 06, 2018 07:24

Nice map! Here are so wonderfull buildings!
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Fri May 11, 2018 19:15

OK, I was a bit distracted by a new toy (quad-copter) but I've managed to terraform most of the south side hill and place the roads. I also tweaked some of the buildings a bit but am still not happy with the placement yet. Elevations are still a PITA and I had to fudge some to place the buildings - mostly cut and fill with a bit of drop to the contour lines (note the vertical straight lines - nature abhors a straight line [Grin] - but the Greeks should have placed them in cardinal directions for us poor voxel types [More Grins]). See the latest map:

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Map with overlay.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Mon May 14, 2018 16:12

Here's the current state of the Administrative Area of the Agora including the Tholos, kitchen, and the New and Old (previously posted) Bouleuterion. All are mostly limestone with wood roofs.

The Tholos served as the headquarters of the prytaneis (executive committee) of the boule. Here the fifty senators were fed at public expense, and at least seventeen spent the night in the building, available to deal with any emergency, whatever the hour. It was built around 470 BC as an unadorned drum, with six interior columns supporting a conical roof of large diamond-shape terracotta roof tiles.

Just uphill from the Tholos was the (New) Bouleuterion, meeting place of the boule, or senate of 500. The building dates to the last quarter of the 5th century BC.

Image
Administrative Area of the Agora.

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Tholos interior.

Image
New Bouleuterion interior.
Attachments
New Bouleuterion (web).jpg
New Bouleuterion interior.
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Tholos (web).jpg
Tholos interior.
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Administrative Area of the Agora (web).jpg
Administrative Area of the Agora.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Tue May 29, 2018 17:47

Sorry, I've been otherwise occupied for the last week. I'm now working my way up thethe Panathenaic Way toward the Acropolis. I've bypassed the Eleusinion community for the present as I can't seem to reconcile the elevations on the DEM created map with the archeological excavations. I'll return to it later. So I'm working on the hill of the Acropolis at the moment. Here's a screenshot of the DEM created map from the 125m to 147m elevations (the sand blocks mark the turns of the contour lines on each meter level). Next will be the replacement of the stone for the appropriate materials ("Athens" Schist - from the [darkage] mod - for stone in the lower portion and limestone from the [stone] mod - in the upper - see image below) and then building the limestone retaining walls and rubble fill. Then comes the "Crepidoma" (foundation slab) of the various structures. I hope to have that part done by the weekend or there a bouts.

Image
Hill of the Acropolis.

Image
Section through the Acropolis N-S.

Image
Acropolis from the Agora.
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Acropolis from the Agora.jpg
Acropolis from the Agora.
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acro_section_l.jpg
Section through the Acropolis N-S.
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Hill of the Acropolis.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Thu May 31, 2018 18:49

Here's my prgress on the hill of the Parthenon. First is a N-S section to compare with my previous post. I've not replaced the stone with Schist yet so you can see the contract between materials better. Next is a detail of the "fill" in the south side of the same section. Bottom layer is "Limestone", next is "Limestone Cobble" (both from the [stone] mod) denoting the limestone rubble and then the top layer is "Coarse Dirt" - a MineCraft block - for the landfill. Next is a drawing of the actual "fill" used in building the Parthenon in Athens. This includes earlier buildings and walls which I'm not concerned with. Also I havem't done the parapet(s) yet or the buttresses and other wall details. That will be later.

Enjoy, and questions, requests and advice are always welcome.

Image
Section through the Parthenon, N-S.

Image
Detail of fill.

Image
Actual Archeological detail of fill.
Attachments
Parthenon_01.jpg
Parthenon drawing of fill.
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Parthnon Fill detail.jpg
Parthnon Fill detail.
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Parthenon Section.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Sat Jun 02, 2018 15:25

Here's a first shot at the east elevation of the Parthenon. Any comments, suggestions?

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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by Stix » Sat Jun 02, 2018 15:29

captpete wrote:Here's a first shot at the east elevation of the Parthenon. Any comments, suggestions?

Image

just magnificent, truly magnificent.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Sat Jun 02, 2018 18:29

Here's the NAOS (minus the statue) and the OPITHODOMOS of the Pathenon so far along with a reconstruction drawing of the NAOS of the Parthenon, with statue of Athena Parthenos.

Image
NAOS of the Parthenon.

Image
OPITHODOMOS of the Parthenon.

Image
Reconstruction drawing of the interior of the Parthenon, with statue of Athena Parthenos.
Attachments
OPITHODOMOS of the Parthenon.jpg
OPITHODOMOS of the Parthenon.
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NAOS of the Parthenon.jpg
NAOS of the Parthenon.
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Reconstruction drawing of the interior of the Parthenon, with statue of Athena Parthenos.jpg
Reconstruction drawing of the interior of the Parthenon, with statue of Athena Parthenos.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Sat Jun 02, 2018 20:00

Here's some more...

Image
NAOS with statue.

Image
Elevation and sections of the doors of the Parthenon.

Image
PRONAOS of the Parthenon.
Attachments
PRONAOS of the Parthenon.jpg
PRONAOS of the Parthenon.
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NAOS with statue.jpg
NAOS with statue of Athena Parthenos.
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Elevation and sections of the doors of the Parthenon.jpg
Elevation and sections of the doors of the Parthenon.
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by twoelk » Sun Jun 03, 2018 17:58

cool as ever.
It's really fun watching your progress and seeing how you learn about ancient Athens. Actually by now I'm pretty envious of your pace while my roman project keeps stumbling over problems that call for more attention than I have time to spare for at the moment ;-)

That landfill area is hillarious :D I almost expected you to add the old foundations of the first parthenon.
Have you taken the current hight profile of the area into account? The approach to the parthenon was a well designed path of surprising views after passing through buildings or taking a turn in the path. It still is impressing today and the effect in the time of Pericles must have been even grander. Keep in mind that the modern path is different to the ancient one, including both the acces to the acropolis as well as the inner paths once you where beyond the Propylaea.

What irritates most modern visitors is the idea of making turns in a major procession way. What one actually sees first of the parthenon once one is through the gate buildings is the unreligious backside. One was led along the long side of the building, past it a little and then made a turn of almost 180° to enter the area with the altar in front of the main doors of the parthenon. Although once it was finished the room on the backside of the parthenon, the opithodomos, was used as treasure house for the Delian League iirc, after Pericles missused the taxes intended for protection projects against the Persians as funds for rebuilding what the Persians had destroyed. So the first thing one saw was actually a gigantic treasure house as fit for the Athenian Sea Empire with the abode of a goddess attached to it ;-P ...er,well actually they said they had put the treasure under the most powerfull protection they had, which they thought was hiding it behind the skirt of the eternal mega girlie Athena. I mean the word parthenon does somewhat translate to virgin girl's chamber or more modern rather girlie power center doesn't it?

Getting the proportions right is, as always with rebuilding real life content, is pretty difficult.
The roof angle is deffinitly too steep.
I don't thing the tiling effect of the walls does the real building justice.
The blockiness of the higher walls was not so dominating in appearance as it seems from your screenshots. Actually the stones are pretty bright and on surviving parts of the surface one can see that they where carved very precisely so that the gaps between the stones was reduced to be barely noticable. The lowest layer of blocks of the inner walls may have been somewhat more prominent though which might also stem from the fact that they where probably turned by 90° when errected. and as thus the surface looks slightly, different. I can't remember wether they have actually been of a different material but certainly they had been produced in a different timeframe than the stones above them.

All framing parts of doorways and windows or some other featured part of the building on the other hand always had a slight elevated edge at minimum so that shadows helped to emphisize such parts.

The intercolumn and the metope pattern including the century's old problem of the corner metope seem to be still unsolved. You may need to work with slabs here to get close to the original pattern.

I redesigned my temples maybe half a dozen times and still have the impression they are pretty far from the real thing.
So good luck with your efforts.
I can hardly wait to see what you come up with next.
 

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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by voxelproof » Sun Jun 03, 2018 20:04

It looks more and more impressive with each next screenshot. Can/t wait to see it whole.

And, maybe someday someone will create a "philosophers mod" for this map :)
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Sun Jun 03, 2018 23:25

twoelk wrote:cool as ever.
...
That landfill area is hillarious :D I almost expected you to add the old foundations of the first parthenon.
Have you taken the current hight profile of the area into account? The approach to the parthenon was a well designed path of surprising views after passing through buildings or taking a turn in the path. It still is impressing today and the effect in the time of Pericles must have been even grander. Keep in mind that the modern path is different to the ancient one, including both the acces to the acropolis as well as the inner paths once you where beyond the Propylaea.
...

Getting the proportions right is, as always with rebuilding real life content, is pretty difficult.
The roof angle is deffinitly too steep.
I don't thing the tiling effect of the walls does the real building justice.
The blockiness of the higher walls was not so dominating in appearance as it seems from your screenshots. Actually the stones are pretty bright and on surviving parts of the surface one can see that they where carved very precisely so that the gaps between the stones was reduced to be barely noticable. The lowest layer of blocks of the inner walls may have been somewhat more prominent though which might also stem from the fact that they where probably turned by 90° when errected. and as thus the surface looks slightly, different. I can't remember wether they have actually been of a different material but certainly they had been produced in a different timeframe than the stones above them.

All framing parts of doorways and windows or some other featured part of the building on the other hand always had a slight elevated edge at minimum so that shadows helped to emphisize such parts.

The intercolumn and the metope pattern including the century's old problem of the corner metope seem to be still unsolved. You may need to work with slabs here to get close to the original pattern.

I redesigned my temples maybe half a dozen times and still have the impression they are pretty far from the real thing.
So good luck with your efforts.
I can hardly wait to see what you come up with next.


I'm still researching the Way and the processional path. Working from old drawings and whatever I can find but no solid help yet on the processional path. Elevations are also a PITA. Google Earth is of some help but not definitive as elevations changed over the centuries. I know that the stylobate, from the older Parthenon was used so there's a larger base on which the New Parthenon sets. I know the area was landfilled to 150m - the highest elevation of the DEM (1 arc sec resolution, about 30m is the best I could find) in the NE corner at 147m. I know the height and breath of the columns and cella and the general floor plan has been debated down through many archeological studies so I picked one that fit the best within MineTest limitations. The walls vary in height and width (width between 3.5 and 6m so I choose 4m as the best compromise) and had 1 or maybe 2 parapets which I'm still researching. The boundary walls vary in construction with the lower part of at least the north wall made of old stones from previous constructions. I have some detailed drawings but no way to relate them to their actual location.

The roof is the best I could come up with using the Circular Saw mod to create half-slopes - I realize the proportion is wrong but that's what I have to work with. I changed the cella walls from blocks to bricks and added more detail to the doors and walls - it's still a work in progress. The Parthenon is really a multiple of earlier Parthenons - there was the "old" Partenon, then Parthenon I, then after the Persian destruction Parthenon II (which changed from limestone to marble construction), both unfinished, and finally the "New" Parthenon which is what I'm trying to model. The facade of the Parthenon (minus the roofline) is as close as I can come and the metopes and triglyphs are also a compromise. So too with the doors and I haven't even started on the screens between the columns of the pronaos which was completely enclosed.

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Parthenon Dorrs - take 2.jpg
Parthenon Dorrs - take 2
(165.6 KiB) Not downloaded yet
 

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captpete
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:57

Here's a section, W-E, though the Parthenon (2nd revision) and the reference reconstruction. Not perfect but relatively close at least. Attic is a first try as it was not built in the first run and it needs tweaking.

I have other projects that need attention so I may not be as active for awhile.

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Parthenon Section W-E take 2.

Image
Parthenon Section A.
 

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voxelproof
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by voxelproof » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:02

Wondrous screenies . But the images in your latest post aren't visible.
>>>there is life beyond the Cube>>>
 

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captpete
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Re: Athens (5th Century BC)

by captpete » Wed Aug 29, 2018 17:48

I can see them just fine. I didn't put links in so I'll do that next time. Been sick (and am still) so no work for me now).
 

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